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Why are some people "afraid" of EvE?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2014-02-27 14:54:30 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?

Define “maximum potential”. Are we talking about all conceivable fits or only all sane and sensible fits? Also, what does it have to do with “catching up”?
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2014-02-27 14:56:23 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Alastair Ormand wrote:
The thing with Eve is it takes a while to get anywhere...

So basically, wait?

New people should sign up to EVE and then wait. Wait a long time...

I have been guilty of exactly that. A few weeks after I first started, my wife made some reference to me playing the game, and I told her, "I'm not really playing yet, I'm still getting ready." A few months later my answer was the same, and it became kind of a joke between us. I'm still "getting ready" to play, but I'm going to start Real Soon™.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-02-27 15:09:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?

Define “maximum potential”. Are we talking about all conceivable fits or only all sane and sensible fits? Also, what does it have to do with “catching up”?


Like, if you're going to fly the most expensive ship in the game, you're going to make sure you have all the skills necessary to be able to completely maximize it for whatever you need it for.

MAXIMUM.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#84 - 2014-02-27 15:14:54 UTC
What ? So, suddenly size matters ? Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2014-02-27 15:22:39 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Like, if you're going to fly the most expensive ship in the game, you're going to make sure you have all the skills necessary to be able to completely maximize it for whatever you need it for.
Ok. So only sane fits — the rest don't qualify for “whatever you need it for”.

About 1,600 days — a bit less if you can be arsed to sort the skills into coherent remapping groups. And even then, you have a ton of completely marginal skills that you most likely will never use and which offer no appreciable benefit for pushing them that high.

And again, what does it have to do with “catching up”?
Uma D
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-02-27 15:25:23 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
What ? So, suddenly size matters ? Lol


Yes.. for ppl like devine size matters.. as if a bigger ship would automatically generate kills which is the main problem when you join EVE and think like he does.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-02-27 16:27:58 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:

I don't think it's fair to call it a failure of CCP. They've created a game for a demographic. People who get it enjoy the game. People who don't won't. It's not a failure of CCP that (potentially) you are not their target market.


Oh, no, it's not their failure they made a game/manage this game is such a way that it fails to attract new players.

But then again maybe I should listen to the 5-6 year old players, the game will be cool by the time the calendar shows 2020.

i will tell you a secret. Not one person knows it! Cool

all these 5-6 years old players started from 'new player' state!Shocked

and if you will be strong in 5 years some 'new player' will point at you and cry 'why Eve is such bad for new player? i cannot even undock!!!'

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#88 - 2014-02-27 16:32:37 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?

Define “maximum potential”. Are we talking about all conceivable fits or only all sane and sensible fits? Also, what does it have to do with “catching up”?


Like, if you're going to fly the most expensive ship in the game, you're going to make sure you have all the skills necessary to be able to completely maximize it for whatever you need it for.

MAXIMUM.


This is incorrect and it displays a tendency you have for not being able to see past your own point of view.

Lots of people choose to fly ships that they aren't perfectly (or even adequately) skilled for. Just because you don't make that choice doesn't mean others do things the same way.

If everyone did things the way you do almost no one would be flying anything bigger than an Ibis. I know that according to ISIS, most ships I fly on my of my characters are suboptimal (like lvl 2 or 3 on ISIS) and I do just fine.
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-02-27 17:06:32 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


I have a better question. If u had a Titan today that you could fly to its maximum potential what would you do with it? Solo as well?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#90 - 2014-02-27 17:12:28 UTC
Tysun Kane wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


I have a better question. If u had a Titan today that you could fly to its maximum potential what would you do with it? Solo as well?


Personally I don't want a titan. At least right now. I have no clue what I would do with it. I would probably put a bunch of mining lasers on it and tank rats in 0.0 while afk 23 hours a day sleeping.

On an unrelated note, I spoke with an ISD about the potential time it would take to maximize a titan.

New Players: It will take you 4-5 years of training if you wish to fly a titan.
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-02-27 17:20:43 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tysun Kane wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


I have a better question. If u had a Titan today that you could fly to its maximum potential what would you do with it? Solo as well?


Personally I don't want a titan. At least right now. I have no clue what I would do with it. I would probably put a bunch of mining lasers on it and tank rats in 0.0 while afk 23 hours a day sleeping.

On an unrelated note, I spoke with an ISD about the potential time it would take to maximize a titan.

New Players: It will take you 4-5 years of training if you wish to fly a titan.


I think the fact that you don t know how long it will take or can't even answer the question what if u had one right now is the exact reason why CCP has training the way it is. So you can crawl before you walk and have appreciation for ships or skills when you finally get them instead of the average MMO month grind to reach end game content.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-02-27 17:32:03 UTC
Tysun Kane wrote:


I think the fact that you don t know how long it will take or can't even answer the question what if u had one right now is the exact reason why CCP has training the way it is. So you can crawl before you walk and have appreciation for ships or skills when you finally get them instead of the average MMO month grind to reach end game content.


I asked an EVE ISD how long it would take and he said 4-5 years. If you're saying I need more training time because an ISD doesn't know himself between 4-5 years, I think you're trying to hard to push into me.

Also, I said I don't want a titan. I've heard they're like prisons. Once you're in, you're in for good. I do not want that. I want choices and I don't wish to have any alts at this time. Only one character, my main, this one.

Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.

But still, letting all the new players who read this thread know that to reach the best ship at maximum is a minimum of 4 years time investment, well I just think it's good to have the information out there for people to know.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#93 - 2014-02-27 17:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
On an unrelated note, I spoke with an ISD about the potential time it would take to maximize a titan.
You had to ask an ISD about something that was already mentioned in the thread?

Quote:
New Players: It will take you 4-5 years of training if you wish to fly a titan.
So?

Quote:
Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game.
Titans are not the best ships in the game. Far from it. So no. It takes maybe a year or so to completely max out the best ship in the game, but you'll be fully proficient with it in at most a third or half that time.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-02-27 17:36:35 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
[quote=Tysun Kane]



Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.



That is the bit that makes me smile and laugh... Biggest does not equal best. A titan is the biggest ship, and under the correct circumstances, quite powerful. But, it's far from the "best". It's an incredibly situational ship, and the most common thing a titan pilot will do is to bridge others into combat, not actually go into combat themselves.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#95 - 2014-02-27 17:37:05 UTC
Titans are not the best ships in Eve, they have clear purpose just like any other ship class has.

Invalid signature format
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2014-02-27 17:39:46 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tysun Kane wrote:


I think the fact that you don t know how long it will take or can't even answer the question what if u had one right now is the exact reason why CCP has training the way it is. So you can crawl before you walk and have appreciation for ships or skills when you finally get them instead of the average MMO month grind to reach end game content.


I asked an EVE ISD how long it would take and he said 4-5 years. If you're saying I need more training time because an ISD doesn't know himself between 4-5 years, I think you're trying to hard to push into me.

Also, I said I don't want a titan. I've heard they're like prisons. Once you're in, you're in for good. I do not want that. I want choices and I don't wish to have any alts at this time. Only one character, my main, this one.

Still, to me, 4-5 years is entirely too long to reach the maximum of the best ship in game. That's just my opinion though. Luckily for us, I'm not trying to get a titan so that's not effecting my decision to play or quit.

But still, letting all the new players who read this thread know that to reach the best ship at maximum is a minimum of 4 years time investment, well I just think it's good to have the information out there for people to know.


The fact that you think that there is a BEST ship in EVE is ANOTHER reason why there is time based training and not a grind fest. There is no best ship only right pilot in the right situation at the time. And at that time you can still lose lol that's what makes EVE so great.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-02-27 17:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: SKINE DMZ
Titans are far from the best ships in eve(there are no best ships think of ships more like rock paper scissors, got to use the right one at the right time), they are tools against other big ships and can transport fleets from one place to another basically. You wouldn't go do anything in a Titan alone, they are only used with fleets so you wouldn't ever train to be in one on your main character.

You are extremely underestimating small ships, I did this too and I'm sure many others and only started flying frigates again a few months back. Within a year of playing you can be fully effective solo in faction warfare for example, winning fights and destroying ships of players who have been playing for longer than 5 years. The older character with lots of skill points will have the majority of their skill points in skills that are not relevant to the fight you will have with them.

People who think they need time to catch up don't understand EVE fully in my opinion, you can create a focused scanner guy right now and be more efficient in scanning than most pilots within just a few months.

I disagree
Pew Terror
All of it
#98 - 2014-02-27 17:45:29 UTC
If you want to do the most difficult PvP pilotingwise in EvE it is basically frigate duelling/micro gang and very quick to skill.

If you want to do the bigger fleet meta with its much more changing ship requirements and tactical implications, you will need a lot of SP.

The biggest problem is that in most other games you can safely learn the ropes while "levelling up" in some kind of area with other equally unqualified wastes of server resource.
In EvE you are immediatly in the sandbox when you undock getting slaughtered and laughed at by people that know what they are doing and that makes some people afraid of loosing ships.
Solution: Join RvB for a few weeks. You will loose all regard for the safe return of your ships to their docks.
Aargolos
Estrale Frontiers
#99 - 2014-02-27 17:50:35 UTC
Hey this is still here. Some interesting discussions going on, which is good.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-02-27 17:52:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.

Why would you ask your friends to waste a year?

Why do you want to fly a widow? Seems a waste unless you're already in a large group that can do blops roams. Eve training times prohibiting play is the biggest falsehood in the mmo industry. Even wow has a larger barrier of entry in terms of time commitment.

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