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Why are some people "afraid" of EvE?

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Author
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2014-02-27 12:36:43 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Quaggan Stomp wrote:

6. Too much external crap necessary to play the game. encyclopedias, API keys, apps like EFT. All this stuff needs to get canned. Everyone should be spending their time playing the game not looking stuff up on encyclopedias about it for the most part. It should all be self explanatory from within.



First off, I would like to say thanks for making a post in this thread on this topic explaining an issue you've directly encountered with potential new players to the EVE Online universe.

I agree with the majority of your post.

Not to pick on you, but I'd like to use what I quoted, your #6 to express my own opinion on that subject.

That's actually one of the aspects of this game I like. It's alot to learn. I enjoy learning. It gives me another interesting thing to think about. All of the different possibilities, the potential, it's all captivating.

But then back to the rest of your post, it's very disheartening that upon realization after many hours of ecstatic research and theory crafting, that it will probably take months to start seeing real, impressive results.



I began to fall in love with eve for the same reason. It's complexity and takes time invested to become a good pilot.
Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#62 - 2014-02-27 12:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tacomaco
Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#63 - 2014-02-27 13:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Tacomaco wrote:
Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem


Quote:
34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.


Are you sure that the actions that this individual is taking are against the EULA? Is Couster on the list?

ED: Yep there it is:

Quote:
Starter Systems

Amarr
Chaven
Sehmy
Emrayur
Caldari
Kisogo
Todaki
Amsen
Gallente
Duripant
Bourynes
Cistuvaert
Minmatar
Ammold
Ryddinjorn
Hulm




Career Agent systems

Amarr
Deepari
Pasha
Conoban
Caldari
Uitra
Jouvulen
Akiainavas
Gallente
Couster
Clellinon
Trossere
Minmatar
Hadaugago
Malukker
Embod




Sisters of EVE Epic Arc

Agent Systems
Arnon


It's called a petition. Let me know if you need help finding it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#64 - 2014-02-27 13:06:36 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem


Thats one sad dude man. If you check his KB, you'll see he does shoot at other ships in other systems. Guess he got scared of people shooting back.

I think we're getting trolled here about this skillpoint thing btw. There's no way people are this dense.
Helia Tranquilis
Confused Bunnies Inc
#65 - 2014-02-27 13:16:12 UTC
Yarda Black wrote:
Tacomaco wrote:
Here is another reason new players don't get into this game:

https://zkillboard.com/character/91427239/page/1/

All this "Ace" does is kill and pod new players in the start region despite been a ban offense from what I understand. What does CCP do? Nothing. Oh, wait, they do something, write some EULA they don't follow.

One player kills dozens of new players, oh well, they are new players so it's not our problem


Thats one sad dude man. If you check his KB, you'll see he does shoot at other ships in other systems. Guess he got scared of people shooting back.

I think we're getting trolled here about this skillpoint thing btw. There's no way people are this dense.
This guy is doing the duty of every veteran player; rooting out the unsuitable new player base from the game as early as possible, creating a supply of bloodthirsty cannon fodder for pvp alliances.



And yes, that was sarcasm. The griefing regulations are there for a reason.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#66 - 2014-02-27 13:17:14 UTC
Tacomaco wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.

This sums it up. No matter how good the players are they can't do anything, they just have to spend a year docked in a starbase learning skills. This is probably the top fail of CCP.
Too bad that it's pretty much 100% false. I agree, though, that it's the top fail of CCP that they don't permaban the griefers who keep spreading this lies to new and potentially new players. In reality, you can join the game from day one as proven by the many new players that do just that.

Quote:
Except Eve isn't chess. You don't get better at chess when you get older.
You don't get better at EVE when you get older either.

Quaggan Stomp wrote:
1. Once your skills get up to lvl 3-4, its like watching paint dry.
2. No catch up mechanism.
4. Unclear path or lack of path, to self sufficiency with ISK, and within most of the game systems.
Just a couple of things.
For the first point, the problem is an expectation that EVE will work like other games — that you'll gather XP progress to higher levels. EVE is not like that, and it doesn't actually offer any progression on its own. So it's more a case of picking some boring number and watch it tick up, and then thinking that it's boring to do so. I'm sure it is, but it is so because you picked a boring number to use as a metric.

For the second point, the reason there is no catch-up mechanism is because catching up is not an applicable concept. Again, this problem stems from the expectations that EVE will work like your standard xp/level/class-based game out there, which it actually works in almost the exact opposite way. There is exactly one thing you can't will have trouble catching up with: total SP. As luck would have it, total SP is meaningless beyond making your clone more expensive. For everything else, not only is catching up possible — it's actually very very easy to the point of being inevitable. As such, it's not a particularly meaningful notion because nothing it measures is meaningful.

For the fourth point… well, yes. That's kind of the whole point of a sandbox: that you make up your own path and choose what to pursue.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2014-02-27 13:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
People don't like to lose and in EVE you can lose a lot more than just about every other MMO out there.

They also suffer from having freedom. In EVE you chose your own path and most of the content is made by the players. People from the other MMOs are used to being spoon fed content and going down a pre made path and get lost in EVE.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-02-27 13:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

I have more space likes than you. 

Tacomaco
No Taxes just fun
#69 - 2014-02-27 14:11:17 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....


This is what will kill Eve maybe not today. Think of this game like a country that has too many old people and too few new people.

CCP's problem isn't market balance or ship balance, they don't have a way for new players to catch up. It's some company saying: we have excellent support for customers! Aha, nice, what are you doing for your new customers? CCP's answer would probably be: too few new customers to wary about them.

For example, the all knowing players that are around for 5,6,7 years have a problem envisioning how this could be fixed(too much Eve?). Simple, new characters could get some larg research boost until they to the average SP the players have now in the game.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2014-02-27 14:15:32 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-02-27 14:20:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-02-27 14:27:24 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


I don't know.. a few months or so?
But shouldn't the question in a game be "How long do I have to wait until I can have fun?"

I personally are someone who -hates- to do things I don't like just for the promise to have fun later maybe.
I think you can have fun in eve from the start. At least that's my experience so far.

Have fun on the way towards your goals. Have intermediate goals as well.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2014-02-27 14:30:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?
Less time than the ones who can do it right now. You could also choose not to wait and instead play the game and kill titans (which might dissuade you from wanting to fly one).
Masira Cadelanne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-02-27 14:31:43 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


Long. But in other MMOs you would not be able to raid the "hardcore endgame content" either within a few weeks. The exception is, that in EvE, there is sooo much to do while you are skilling up for your titan, while in other MMOs its mostly just a grind to "get to the top" fastest. Because you cannot participate in PvP or whatever without having reached the max level. In Eve there is barely anything you will NEED a titan for.

Besides, choosing the most extreme of all examples to prove your point is... interesting. Because in most areas (one on one pvp for example. That is usually not done in titans but rather in cruisers or the like) you will catch up really fast. At least skillwise. That you are going to loose anyway (probably) to an 5-year-old character has nothing to with him having 2 or 3 skills at level 5 more than you do.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-02-27 14:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Thorne
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


You can do what a lot of people who fly Titans do. Buy a Titan pilot.

Once you are in a Titan, you're stuck. Can't dock it, need another pilot to take it over if you want to do something else (a parking alt), so for a lot of people, there is no point in having your main skill to it. And no point in learning any skill not related to flying it on that character.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#76 - 2014-02-27 14:35:19 UTC
What is it with this "afraid" of EVE nonsense ?

Some things just don't appeal to everyone. It has nothing to do with being "afraid".

I have absolutely no desire to see any of the sparkly "Twilight" films, and I absolutely never will. I'm just not interested at all, and for a lot of reasons.

But being "afraid" of the films is not even remotely a reason, and I'm sure it's the same for those not interested in EVE.

The ones claiming that people are "afraid" of EVE are just EGO-STROKING ADHD-riddled Basement Dwellers using their miniscule communicative and rhetorical skills to prove to themselves they are better than everyone else for liking something that others could care less about.

It's only a game people. That's all it will ever be. It matters not at all in the grand scheme of things.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#77 - 2014-02-27 14:37:32 UTC
Masira Cadelanne wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Everyone i talk to IRL about eve thinks that it is impossible to catch up. And they are right....

No, they're just labouring under the incorrect assumption that EVE works like other MMOs in terms of character growth and power.
It is indeed a problem that this illusion isn't being dispelled by CCP and the players talking about it, but the problem is just that: that it's an illusion — not that it is actually the case in the game.


Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


Long. But in other MMOs you would not be able to raid the "hardcore endgame content" either within a few weeks. The exception is, that in EvE, there is sooo much to do while you are skilling up for your titan, while in other MMOs its mostly just a grind to "get to the top" fastest. Because you cannot participate in PvP or whatever without having reached the max level. In Eve there is barely anything you will NEED a titan for.

Besides, choosing the most extreme of all examples to prove your point is... interesting. Because in most areas (one on one pvp for example. That is usually not done in titans but rather in cruisers or the like) you will catch up really fast. At least skillwise. That you are going to loose anyway (probably) to an 5-year-old character has nothing to with him having 2 or 3 skills at level 5 more than you do.


I've already made a few frigate statements in this thread. The titan was just to get an estimate on time to reach the most individually powerful ship in eve.

Which no one's answered yet.

So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#78 - 2014-02-27 14:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because you're essentially asking your friends to be peasants for a year. If they join now, nothing they can do will get them in that battleship.


Might have been true 7 years ago. Nowadays you can get battleship in a few weeks and do level 4s. I've trained plenty of "peasants" over the years and they tend to have a fun time, even with me harping on them to train their support skills. If you're not capable of or do not take pleasure on making a plan and setting a goal while learning the game, if the only game you care about is the "endgame," then you should either quit or purchase a high-sp cahracter. Its wrong to assume everyone else is like you. For one, they tend to just quit if they don't like it rather than troll the forums for days.

Quote:
The bare minimum amount of time it would take for me to get into a Widow is 106 days. And that's to be able to sit in it and not effectively use it. To train up the required skills to pilot it effectively would take another 200 days. Granted you could fly it without all the other necessary skills, but it would be a huge liability considering your inefficient fittings and related skills.


Who gives a flying **** about a widow? Impatient people with a poor understanding of the game flying expensive ships are ALWAYS a liability, regardless of the number of SP they may have.

Divine Entervention wrote:
So how much time can a new player expect to spend if his ultimate goal is to fly a titan to it's maximum potential?


Its not even a valid question, because you don't put your main in a titan, its a coffin. You buy/train an alt and put him in a titan. If you had enough isk (scamming, market, theft, RL money -> plex), you could be in a titan in just a few days.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#79 - 2014-02-27 14:52:24 UTC
Batelle wrote:


Who gives a flying **** about a widow? Impatient people with a poor understanding of the game flying expensive ships are ALWAYS a liability, regardless of the number of SP they may have.



Seriously. I've been qualified for a year for a Widow, but it would just be absolutely useless to me.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#80 - 2014-02-27 14:54:18 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Lets say I want to fly a titan to it's maximum potential.

How long do I have to wait?


We need this guy in a Titan. I could do with an easy kill of that magnitude