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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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Author
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1921 - 2012-03-07 15:51:42 UTC
Charles Edisson wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Well - The hybrids are far from fixed, but I don't hear anyone complaint about blaster dps Lol
If you have a hostile blaster megathron landing on you there isn't even time to "It's a TRAAA....."


Well actually my view would be that the Blaster DPS is not too much, given how dificult it is to get into range of a Minin ship, or the superior EHP of comparable Amarr ships blasters dont do that much DPS, possibly not enough, if your prey has 50% more EHP then you should have 50% more DPS to be on par, not 10%.


Welcome to modern Eve where you can pretty much land directly on targets if you want, and T2 gun users even had NULL range extended... I agree minmatar ships should trade agility/mass with Gallente blasterships, but boosting dps is a minefield of proportions. Add ewar and logistics, and suddenly it doesn't matter how much EHP you have - The DPS ships will have a huge advantage.

Most people in general prefer dps over tank - because you can't replace dps with anything on a straight 1 to 1 basis.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#1922 - 2012-03-07 17:42:33 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
thoth rothschild wrote:
This threat is obsolete.

why?

the dev team has seen the core problems after working on gallente ships.
We will now get a redesign of tier/skill and ship role system. We also get new modules

Both had it's origin in this very threat. We demanded new modules. We started talking about basic roles in pvp/pve.
We demanded change is good for eve. We might get more than we ever expected now :)


Hell yeah ! it will be cool well balanced and the best ! we will see all spaceships in fleets. Drakes and Myrmidons in the same fleet fighting for better tomorrow ! NOT !



maybe one could wait how this announcement ( give it a chance ) turns out?
when it fails, well still enough time to be a bittervet afterwards. or just quit eve, your choice.
beeing all cynical now will not change a thing ;)

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1923 - 2012-03-09 12:50:06 UTC
I believe those ship tree and skill changes will eventually be great, however with the current imbalance of weapon systems CCP will have a hard time balancing the ships properly...

- Hybrid ammunition is still a mess with weird cap bonuses and fixed damage types.
- Gallente ships don't have the acceleration and agility to burst themself into blaster range (especially not angel/minmatar).
- Railguns are still not having any role but "a little extra range" (double alpha could be nice).
- Armor rigs hit Gallente blaster ships too hard on a crucial attribute.
- AC's have too much tracking/fall-off (compared to energy and hybrids) easily slaughtering frigates at 24km.

Most of this can wait, but if not dealth with there will be a risc of imbalancing the racial ships to compensate for the imbalance of weapons. And that would be a shame...

Might as well tweak railguns, ship mass/agility and autocannons/tracking enhancers now before they start.
Also armor rigs is a huge hinder for Gallente blasterships - make the penalties to sensor strength instead (eccm).

Pinky
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1924 - 2012-03-09 15:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Archare
Pinky Denmark wrote:
I believe those ship tree and skill changes will eventually be great, however with the current imbalance of weapon systems CCP will have a hard time balancing the ships properly..

- Hybrid ammunition is still a mess with weird cap bonuses and fixed damage types
- Gallente ships don't have the acceleration and agility to burst themself into blaster range (especially not angel/minmatar)
- Railguns are still not having any role but "a little extra range" (double alpha could be nice)
- Armor rigs hit Gallente blaster ships too hard on a crucial attribute
- AC's have too much tracking/fall-off (compared to energy and hybrids) easily slaughtering frigates at 24km

Most of this can wait, but if not dealth with there will be a risc of imbalancing the racial ships to compensate for the imbalance of weapons. And that would be a shame..

Might as well tweak railguns, ship mass/agility and autocannons/tracking enhancers now before they start
Also armor rigs is a huge hinder for Gallente blasterships - make the penalties to sensor strength instead (eccm)

Pinky


The cap bonuses and fixed damage types definitely could be adressed. Most people i know only bother with antimatter. The increased range from iron or lead ammo generally is not worth the reduced damage output on blasters. Null on the otherhand preserves decent damage at range in comparison. Also having 1%-15% increments of range and damage between levels of ammunition is pointless, as is carrying any reasonable amount of all these ammo ranges to cover the rainbow. Unlike laser, hybrid charges take up space so it's unfeasible to have 8 different ranges in the cargo hold.

Going a step up in range from antimatter to plutonium gives a range increase of 13% to optimal for a loss of almost 10% dps. While this appears to be on par with the step up from multifreq to gamma crystals in lasers, Lasers ranges are dictated by optimal, while blaster ranges operate on a split between optimal and falloff. This issue was recognized this the changes to null ammo, and the rest of the gallente t1 ammo could be brought inline. The biggest issue with this however is the effects of increasing the falloff on t1 ammo would have on railguns.

The speed/agility issue goes along with the general ship/tier/slot layout issues of gallente. While hybrids are much better after the patch, they are still lacking in comparison. The application of the weapons feels limited by the ship hulls now more than the inherent deficiencies of the weapons themselves tho further refining is still needed on both sides.

*and hooray for new autosave feature saving my post
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1925 - 2012-03-11 18:57:03 UTC
The bit CCP said they are going to compare the Abaddon with the Hyperion made my heart grow twice its size.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1926 - 2012-03-11 19:07:50 UTC
ClusterFook wrote:
Turns out CCP Tallest had twins and is now on paternity leave, as the leader of the re-balance team (there are 3 total) it has been put on the side burner untill he gets back. So i woul not expect ANY hyrbrid/Gallente changes/ re-balance for at least 6 months if at all.


While this is good news for Tallest and I wish him all the best it turns out again that CCP is a bunch of ...

It should not be our problem that Tallest is away now. CCP should replace him until he comes back. They have promissed to fix hybrids, they have promissed to fix the stupid game and they have promised to listen to their community but it seems that Gal Pilots are not part of this community.

I have a bit time left with my plexes, no improvement and no news regarding this topic means for me I leave this game (2nd time but this time forever).

CCP was / is / and will stay forever an ignorant company that does't care about communication too much but instead makes marketing promises that they are not going to hold.
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1927 - 2012-03-11 21:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
this info might be usefull for you :)

Micro Jump Drive I
[+|n] medPower
[+|n] microJumpDrive
[+|n] online
[+] capacitorNeed: 946.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] cpu: 77.0
[+] disallowRepeatingActivation: 1.0
[+] duration: 30000.0
[+] gallenteNavyBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] heatAbsorbtionRateModifier: 0.04
[+] heatDamage: 8.2
[+] hp: 40.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] maxGroupActive: 1.0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] moduleReactivationDelay: 120000.0
[+] power: 1375.0
[+] republicFleetBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 1.0
[+] requiredThermoDynamicsSkill: 1.0
[+] signatureRadiusBonusPercent: 500.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 10.0
[+] warpScrambleStrength: -1.0

[+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I
[+|n] anchorDrop
[+|n] anchorLift
[+] anchoringDelay: 360000.0
[+] armorHP: 60000.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] hp: 120000.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 11584.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 3435.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 4.0
[+] requiredSkill3: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill3Level: 3.0
[+] scanLadarStrength: 25.0
[+] shieldCapacity: 40000.0
[+] shieldRechargeRate: 1200000.0
[+] signatureRadius: 450.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 585.0
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1928 - 2012-03-11 21:51:53 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
this info might be usefull for you :)

Micro Jump Drive I
[+|n] medPower
[+|n] microJumpDrive
[+|n] online
[+] capacitorNeed: 946.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] cpu: 77.0
[+] disallowRepeatingActivation: 1.0
[+] duration: 30000.0
[+] gallenteNavyBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] heatAbsorbtionRateModifier: 0.04
[+] heatDamage: 8.2
[+] hp: 40.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] maxGroupActive: 1.0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] moduleReactivationDelay: 120000.0
[+] power: 1375.0
[+] republicFleetBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 1.0
[+] requiredThermoDynamicsSkill: 1.0
[+] signatureRadiusBonusPercent: 500.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 10.0
[+] warpScrambleStrength: -1.0

[+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I
[+|n] anchorDrop
[+|n] anchorLift
[+] anchoringDelay: 360000.0
[+] armorHP: 60000.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] hp: 120000.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 11584.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 3435.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 4.0
[+] requiredSkill3: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill3Level: 3.0
[+] scanLadarStrength: 25.0
[+] shieldCapacity: 40000.0
[+] shieldRechargeRate: 1200000.0
[+] signatureRadius: 450.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 585.0


I was 4 weeks offline due to a business trip. Did I miss something? I'm confused.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1929 - 2012-03-12 01:37:53 UTC
It's a new module on the Chaos test server.

It's a proposed mid slot item that will jump/warp a battleship 100km forward at the end of it's 30 second activation timer. This and the proposed bounties on drone poo were scraped and posted this weekend.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#1930 - 2012-03-12 08:31:31 UTC
WOW ! This thread is over 70K views now ! nice.

Should we mak a party after 100K ? CCP guys, what you thinking ?

Happy 70.000 Guys !
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#1931 - 2012-03-12 10:00:30 UTC
^ I say make party, when hybrids are buffed again and worth using.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1932 - 2012-03-12 17:07:04 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ I say make party, when hybrids are buffed again and worth using.


Word.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1933 - 2012-03-12 19:26:08 UTC
i'm having a party everyday

Nice balancing, not op but competent - good job.

MJD sounds interesting, but probably needs quite a bit of testing, maybe just in time for Inferno.

Hope Tallest gets back to work in time :)

.

Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1934 - 2012-03-15 18:38:42 UTC
bump - just want to make sure this lovely thread doesn't die ;)

Or do you guys think hybrid ballancing has been finished?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1935 - 2012-03-16 00:31:08 UTC
pokes thread with stick

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1936 - 2012-03-16 01:22:31 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

so all the fighting for a better balance was not for nothing

and CCP finally understood the necesity of it
lets hope they do it right this time
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1937 - 2012-03-16 20:05:48 UTC
The mjd looks pretty terrible if it indeed takes 30s to spool up. not to mention 100km microjump seems kinda stupid considering folks were griping about the charge from 20ish to 5km. not charging at a target from 100. worse than just useless as an offensive module imo
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1938 - 2012-03-16 23:26:10 UTC
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

so all the fighting for a better balance was not for nothing

and CCP finally understood the necesity of it
lets hope they do it right this time


Cool, in about only 3 years the game will finally be balanced, this is (for CCP) very good news ;)
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1939 - 2012-03-16 23:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
Yes the MJD would be great if it would jump me 30 km after 15 seconds.
In addition i would like to jump my command ship, hic, heavy assault ship.


For bs fleets a 100km jump looks like a nice fleet tactic manouver. For med scale and some hunting in high or lowsec i'd like a 10mn version with less jump range and less spoolup.


i simply wuld like the idea of some cs jumping on those tengus at the next alliance tournament a 100mn version won't bring much flavor for the alliance tournament.

BTW i demand more tournamants on eve tv ^^
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1940 - 2012-03-18 13:29:27 UTC
God knows how long they are going to take.

They should just focus entirely on balancing on Inferno 1.5 or whatever.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!