These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

First post First post
Author
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#1621 - 2012-01-08 18:59:54 UTC
I have a crazy idea...

...Maybe Hybrid platforms could do with a 5 to 25% (role bonus, per level of cruiser required) reduction to fitting requirements to the weapons they are supposed to use, like caldari get that bonus applied only to railguns, whiel gallente get that bonus applied only to blasters? :)
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1622 - 2012-01-08 19:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: tEcHnOkRaT
Morgan North wrote:
I have a crazy idea...

...Maybe Hybrid platforms could do with a 5 to 25% (role bonus, per level of cruiser required) reduction to fitting requirements to the weapons they are supposed to use, like caldari get that bonus applied only to railguns, whiel gallente get that bonus applied only to blasters? :)


they already got that with the last patch:D
and if they do it again it would change nothing, maybe a few more slots on galente ships would do the trick (low/med)
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#1623 - 2012-01-08 20:00:43 UTC
They lowered all hybrid weapon's requirements yes. But I'm not talking that, but rather, about giving Gallente a Blaster-specific bonus that also works as a railgun-specific penalty (or lack of bonus) while giving caldari a railgun-specific bonus that doest' apply to blasters. In orde to further breach the gap and reward people who want to fy Blasters/Railguns.

But its just an idea. ;)
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1624 - 2012-01-08 20:06:34 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
They lowered all hybrid weapon's requirements yes. But I'm not talking that, but rather, about giving Gallente a Blaster-specific bonus that also works as a railgun-specific penalty (or lack of bonus) while giving caldari a railgun-specific bonus that doest' apply to blasters. In orde to further breach the gap and reward people who want to fy Blasters/Railguns.

But its just an idea. ;)



that should be more like if u use blasters on ur ship u unlok 1 med and 1 low slot extra:D
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1625 - 2012-01-08 20:32:25 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
Rails should deal Alpha. Thats what they are there for. DPS should be Artilery/Autocannons/Blasters. Thats pretty much how you balance the things and make them viable.


Agreed. Admittedly I never thought of this, but I don't see why not. At least it goes some way in "sharing" the current Winmatar crown.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1626 - 2012-01-08 20:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
CCP, what are you doing with medium rails? the dps is too low, and you cant fit 250's on anything except a shield Astarte. and even then, it's too squishy with average dps. medium rails are unusable.

null buff is great for ships like the Mega/Vindi, Rokh and Vigi/ Deimos. unfortunately, 425mm's will still vastly outperform Heavy Neutrons on my shield Myrm. maybe thats fine.

after null is buffed, you have to do something about rails. i wont even mention drones, your brains would probably melt down from all the thinking. but drones boats suck in pvp, compared to their turret counterparts. Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1627 - 2012-01-08 20:38:31 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
I prefer balance to be that all weapon systems have something unique but equally desirable according to circumstances AND every ship in a given class should have an option to be able to defend itself. Being able to pin someone at a range (outside of specialist ships for the purpose) whilst able to shoot them and not be shot in return is the major imbalance for blasters. Rails have no unique desirable feature.


This sums it all up quite nicely. I'd like to make a small addition in suggesting, possibly, hybrid ships getting that missing "unique desirable feature." Either way, there is fresh evidence showing an utter lack of appeal for hybrids, despite Crucible buffs.. "Appeal" needs to be added to hybrids more than anything. I hope you're reading this one, CCP.
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1628 - 2012-01-08 22:50:49 UTC
something more about drones
after ccp changed the pve mechaniks so npc can aggro drones they got even more useles and in some enviroments speak Wormholes/lvl 5 missions and a few more u cant use them at all cuz the npc do change targets

thats also a big gallente issue
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1629 - 2012-01-08 23:11:09 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.


I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target.

About the Ammo changes: Wouldn't it be easier to change the range on the weapon instead of changing e.g. Null in general, then realize that Medium and Large need different changes, do this changes, then realize that T2 is okay but T1 and faction suck, then change T1 Ammo, after that you realize that balance between tier 1 and 2 and 3 are not okay and finally end up with changing the weapon. So why not leave Ammo as it is and change the weapons directly? The Ammo should only give the extra juice but not the general balance becouse the dependencies and combinations are hard to predict.

So lets better think about what a T1 Med Blaster should be able to do and what the T2 should do better and then just change the Weapons accordingly, makes sense?
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1630 - 2012-01-08 23:22:15 UTC
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
something more about drones
after ccp changed the pve mechaniks so npc can aggro drones they got even more useles and in some enviroments speak Wormholes/lvl 5 missions and a few more u cant use them at all cuz the npc do change targets

thats also a big gallente issue


This was actually ninja changed in crucible. In a couple of the sites, such as an exceptional grav site which only has 1 BS which has troubles hitting small ECM drones, I'd use EC-300s to jam/get him to swap. I tried to do it last week and the sleepers only changed to drones after a jam cycle went off (reagro appears to be random), but then swapped right back to me before even popping it.
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1631 - 2012-01-08 23:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamox
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
Hamox wrote:
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:


projektiles where crap before 2007 now they are overpowered
what does it tell u ??


That Hybrids will be overpowered 2017?


i was hoping to say that huge changes can be made any time in mmos.

and i dont wont hybrids to be overpowered just equal with less then 5% diference in performance compared to other guns.
thats balance

what we have now are huge jumps between them


Hey this was a nice german joke.
I can not understand how you could misunderstand it! :)

The joke was that it will take 5 years with half baked changes and then overnight a Dev decides to finally fix Blasters. In my scenario he gives them a sort of special Hybrid X-Ray 2000 (produced by Binford who has recently started to support Gallente) that shots like a corona without the need to lock a target so you can melt the electronic of every enemy ship on the GRID. To balance it he decides to reduce the Signature Strengh with 5% (or maybe 7.5%, he is not sure and doesn't want to make dramatic changes) so you will lock a bit slower if you decide to do something other to your target instead of just melt it :)
After the first 50000 Minmatar winers they will propably also reduce Gallente agility slightly while Minmatar Pilots complaining that this will not change anything. In the meantime Amarr just decides to use Hybrids on a Abandon and Caldari scraps all missle boats and hopes that X-Ray 2000 will be introduced to Railguns in the next sommer update :P

Sidenote: The Caldari could also use Blasters on their Hybrid plattforms but they decided that they are too proud to use Gallente crap! Unfortunately Minmatar doesn't find any X-Ray 2000 on their scrap yard so they decide to salvage the old Caldari missles boats and combine them with Projektiles, maybe this could help vs X-Ray 2000? We will find out soon, approx 2019!
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1632 - 2012-01-09 07:33:01 UTC
Hamox wrote:
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:
Hamox wrote:
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:


projektiles where crap before 2007 now they are overpowered
what does it tell u ??


That Hybrids will be overpowered 2017?


i was hoping to say that huge changes can be made any time in mmos.

and i dont wont hybrids to be overpowered just equal with less then 5% diference in performance compared to other guns.
thats balance

what we have now are huge jumps between them


Hey this was a nice german joke.
I can not understand how you could misunderstand it! :)

The joke was that it will take 5 years with half baked changes and then overnight a Dev decides to finally fix Blasters. In my scenario he gives them a sort of special Hybrid X-Ray 2000 (produced by Binford who has recently started to support Gallente) that shots like a corona without the need to lock a target so you can melt the electronic of every enemy ship on the GRID. To balance it he decides to reduce the Signature Strengh with 5% (or maybe 7.5%, he is not sure and doesn't want to make dramatic changes) so you will lock a bit slower if you decide to do something other to your target instead of just melt it :)
After the first 50000 Minmatar winers they will propably also reduce Gallente agility slightly while Minmatar Pilots complaining that this will not change anything. In the meantime Amarr just decides to use Hybrids on a Abandon and Caldari scraps all missle boats and hopes that X-Ray 2000 will be introduced to Railguns in the next sommer update :P

Sidenote: The Caldari could also use Blasters on their Hybrid plattforms but they decided that they are too proud to use Gallente crap! Unfortunately Minmatar doesn't find any X-Ray 2000 on their scrap yard so they decide to salvage the old Caldari missles boats and combine them with Projektiles, maybe this could help vs X-Ray 2000? We will find out soon, approx 2019!


hehe :D
Uinuva Karma
Doomheim
#1633 - 2012-01-09 11:01:03 UTC
Hamox wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.


I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target.



Sentry drone ships received a Master Almost-Ninja Buff in Crucible. It's called the Reconnect to lost drone -key shortcut.

I've had great success with abandon/reconnects, it allows new kind of tactics, mixing sentry and conventional drones.

Captain Kirk didn't stay in hisec. 

tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1634 - 2012-01-09 12:53:20 UTC
Uinuva Karma wrote:
Hamox wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.


I like this idea, while I like the concept of Sentries they are so much micro management becouse you always have to stay in range, pack them, unpack again and so on. If they just could fly 50 m/s and would follow the drone boat it would really help and they still would be a difference to combat drones becouse you could not send them to a target.



Sentry drone ships received a Master Almost-Ninja Buff in Crucible. It's called the Reconnect to lost drone -key shortcut.

I've had great success with abandon/reconnects, it allows new kind of tactics, mixing sentry and conventional drones.


it is only good if u get disconect
and to use them for warp out pvp is a good tactic to just loose them cuz sentrys are easy to kill and with 400~ dps u wont do mutch damage to becoume a real treat before the drones get killed

and heavy drones are sitting ducks too slow for pvp or pve

and i had also great succes on reconecting to them after i got disconected :D
Uinuva Karma
Doomheim
#1635 - 2012-01-09 16:36:19 UTC
Imaginative more you must be if succeed you want, mhrmrm, young Jedi Blink

Captain Kirk didn't stay in hisec. 

Vokradacka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1636 - 2012-01-09 16:55:39 UTC
we need something like ... ---- teleport all drones to cargo bay "icon" + damage all for 90% shield\armor\structure --- .... its fair enough
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1637 - 2012-01-09 20:00:23 UTC
Another week or so gone, new figures;

1 Maelstrom 57868
2 Drake 42169
3 Hurricane 34209
4 Tengu 25683
5 Abaddon 23004
6 Tornado 14330
7 Tempest 11939
8 Scimitar 10217
9 Sabre 8760
10 Armageddon 7463
11 Zealot 6618
12 Huginn 6565
13 Cynabal 6272
14 Manticore 6188
15 Scorpion 6167
16 Hound 6041
17 Rapier 5998
18 Vagabond 5694
19 Nyx 5659
20 Oracle 5401


1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 23039
2 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 15437
3 425mm AutoCannon II 11905
4 Mega Pulse Laser II 9333
5 200mm AutoCannon II 6178
6 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 5194
7 150mm Light AutoCannon II 5142
8 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 4900
9 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 4604
10 800mm Repeating Artillery II 4417
11 Heavy Pulse Laser II 3508
12 1400mm Gallium Cannon 3371
13 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 3283
14 1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon 3101
15 425mm Railgun II 1866
16 Light Neutron Blaster II 1799
17 Citadel Torpedo Launcher I 1653
18 Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I 1563
19 Neutron Blaster Cannon II 1552
20 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 1527

No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful.
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1638 - 2012-01-09 20:06:34 UTC
Uinuva Karma wrote:
Imaginative more you must be if succeed you want, mhrmrm, young Jedi Blink



hay master yoda ^^
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1639 - 2012-01-09 20:10:10 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
Another week or so gone, new figures;

1 Maelstrom 57868
2 Drake 42169
3 Hurricane 34209
4 Tengu 25683
5 Abaddon 23004
6 Tornado 14330
7 Tempest 11939
8 Scimitar 10217
9 Sabre 8760
10 Armageddon 7463
11 Zealot 6618
12 Huginn 6565
13 Cynabal 6272
14 Manticore 6188
15 Scorpion 6167
16 Hound 6041
17 Rapier 5998
18 Vagabond 5694
19 Nyx 5659
20 Oracle 5401


1 Heavy Missile Launcher II 23039
2 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 15437
3 425mm AutoCannon II 11905
4 Mega Pulse Laser II 9333
5 200mm AutoCannon II 6178
6 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 5194
7 150mm Light AutoCannon II 5142
8 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 4900
9 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 4604
10 800mm Repeating Artillery II 4417
11 Heavy Pulse Laser II 3508
12 1400mm Gallium Cannon 3371
13 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 3283
14 1400mm Prototype Siege Cannon 3101
15 425mm Railgun II 1866
16 Light Neutron Blaster II 1799
17 Citadel Torpedo Launcher I 1653
18 Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I 1563
19 Neutron Blaster Cannon II 1552
20 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 1527

No hybrid using ships, 5.9% of weapons are hybrids. Still dreadful.



oh boy oh boy fleet maelstrom banned the abbadon

dark days indeed
i wonder how big is the persentage now of projectile/minmatar ships in use comared to all 3 races together :D
tEcHnOkRaT
WipeOut Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1640 - 2012-01-09 20:23:08 UTC
dont forget lazors are just a bit better then hybrids
but projectile platforms are by far better then lazors

so all weapon platforms need a buff or the projectiles need a nerf