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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#681 - 2013-10-24 20:36:38 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
wait wait wait

people think nullsec alliances are more elitist than incursion running groups?

geeez, some people


Is that at me? No, I don't think so. I honestly don't think there is much of anything "elitist" in the game. Just about all of it is accessible given enough effort and/or time.

But then, I would also argue that having skillpoint requirements isn't elitist either.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#682 - 2013-10-24 20:39:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Is that at me?


Nope.

Why do you think everything is always about you? We'll talk about this later, not in front of the children.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#683 - 2013-10-24 20:41:35 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Is that at me?


Nope.

Why do you think everything is always about you? We'll talk about this later, not in front of the children.


Lol.

And I thought it was because it was posted fairly shortly after mine, and on the same topic. No harm done, of course, I was beginning to feel like clarifying that anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#684 - 2013-10-24 20:42:31 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
wait wait wait

people think nullsec alliances are more elitist than incursion running groups?

geeez, some people


If you ahve a TTT in fleet, it's pretty much the same I guess. Null fleet follow broadcast, incursion fleet follow tags.

Scratch that, they don;t really follow tags. Do people in null really follow broadcast of do you usually have some idiots shooting the wrong stuff?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#685 - 2013-10-24 21:05:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
wait wait wait

people think nullsec alliances are more elitist than incursion running groups?

geeez, some people


If you ahve a TTT in fleet, it's pretty much the same I guess. Null fleet follow broadcast, incursion fleet follow tags.

Scratch that, they don;t really follow tags. Do people in null really follow broadcast of do you usually have some idiots shooting the wrong stuff?


The peak of nullsec fleet pvp is showing in the right ship with the right fitting; following broadcasts, align, warp, and jump orders; and warping the f out when primaried if you're really pro. Most alliances are at the stage of working on the right ship with the right fittings.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#686 - 2013-10-24 22:06:17 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


Sure its chance based. What happens when they shoot the mothership?.......Thaaaats riiiiggghht.....no more incursion. Hi-sec offers you the chance to do something on your alt while you pvp on your main.

Null isk making requires you to keep you eye glued on local. I choose not to have to deal with elietist or thier attitudes so i do not do incursions but i understand they can be very profitable when the mothership isint being killed.

I will stick to making big iskies doing 7/10 or ratting in null when I can and rely on hi-sec for a more steady income over time.

Anyone telling you there is more money to be made in hi-sec is doing it wrong.


Yeah this post illustrates that you have no idea what you are talking about.

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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#687 - 2013-10-25 01:10:26 UTC
I think the new SOE ships will make ninja plexing in Null a whole new ballgame.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#688 - 2013-10-25 09:18:01 UTC
Doesnt change the basic issue of not being able to do a plex that isnt there or that someone else got to first along with the randomness of the loot drops.

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target, which requires nothing more than basic common sense, Highsec is by far the safest place to do any sort of repetetive activity such as mining or mission running. CONCORD protection, simple logistics and easy access to the busiest markets in the game makes for tasty icing on a very delicious cake.

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#689 - 2013-10-25 11:32:15 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target....

basically you make yourself a target the moment you have logged into the game

next step into this area: undock. Viola! You already a target for someone.

Don't believe?
- Look at these kills of empty or almost empty freighters (total loss in range <1.5billion which basically ship itself)
- Look at these pod kills which were killed "just because i can"

Basically high-sec

Darek Castigatus wrote:

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.

not really:
- the more people run missions the less worth LP, ISK and loot you get there.
- speaking outside of NPC corps you always have possibility to get wardecced or get Incursion into your area

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Galadriel Vasquez
Project Omega Industries
Fraternity.
#690 - 2013-10-25 11:33:27 UTC
Playing EVE just to accumulate ISK? Is this what it is about?Shocked

I have tin foil hat trained to 5.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#691 - 2013-10-25 11:39:13 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Doesnt change the basic issue of not being able to do a plex that isnt there or that someone else got to first along with the randomness of the loot drops.

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target, which requires nothing more than basic common sense, Highsec is by far the safest place to do any sort of repetetive activity such as mining or mission running. CONCORD protection, simple logistics and easy access to the busiest markets in the game makes for tasty icing on a very delicious cake.

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.

I am far more safe in null.. and I always have anoms to run more than I can handle. And they pay more than a lvl 4 and faster.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#692 - 2013-10-25 12:34:25 UTC
Ah yes, the npc corp alt 0.0 puppet

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#693 - 2013-10-25 12:35:05 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


Sure its chance based. What happens when they shoot the mothership?.......Thaaaats riiiiggghht.....no more incursion. Hi-sec offers you the chance to do something on your alt while you pvp on your main.

Null isk making requires you to keep you eye glued on local. I choose not to have to deal with elietist or thier attitudes so i do not do incursions but i understand they can be very profitable when the mothership isint being killed.

I will stick to making big iskies doing 7/10 or ratting in null when I can and rely on hi-sec for a more steady income over time.

Anyone telling you there is more money to be made in hi-sec is doing it wrong.


Yeah this post illustrates that you have no idea what you are talking about.

no you're being trolled

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#694 - 2013-10-25 12:35:45 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
wait wait wait

people think nullsec alliances are more elitist than incursion running groups?

geeez, some people


If you ahve a TTT in fleet, it's pretty much the same I guess. Null fleet follow broadcast, incursion fleet follow tags.

Scratch that, they don;t really follow tags. Do people in null really follow broadcast of do you usually have some idiots shooting the wrong stuff?

Depends. Are we using a drone assist doctrine?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#695 - 2013-10-25 13:01:56 UTC
One day during a campaign in delve i found a 6 bil officer smartbomb in 5 min, so following your logic a 0.0 grunt can net 72 bil/h.

Beside bulls-hit a 0.0 grunt, corp, ally, coalition have an huge amount of costs u don't consider and following your logic nobody should pvp cause u lose money (actually u can earn money also, but it's another story).

Sometimes ppl just play the game and try to have fun.

If u r not satisfied by empire mission come to 0.0 we will welcome u, but i cannot see level 4 as an end game were u run mindless and countless missions 1 after another with no reason until the day u get too greedy and some bc gang gank your shiny ride. Big smile
To Be Me
Doomheim
#696 - 2013-10-25 13:11:59 UTC
lol what is this thread about??

lmao .. Highsec to make isks..LOLLL

Best joke i heard today

thumbs up if you like :))))
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#697 - 2013-10-25 14:45:08 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Doesnt change the basic issue of not being able to do a plex that isnt there or that someone else got to first along with the randomness of the loot drops.

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target, which requires nothing more than basic common sense, Highsec is by far the safest place to do any sort of repetetive activity such as mining or mission running. CONCORD protection, simple logistics and easy access to the busiest markets in the game makes for tasty icing on a very delicious cake.

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.

I am far more safe in null.. and I always have anoms to run more than I can handle. And they pay more than a lvl 4 and faster.


I'm sure the "Royal Amarr Institute" has plenty of null space lol. I'm also sure that CONCORD is going to come and blap people that attack you in null sec. Now that's safety.

So tell us, what ship do you use? What Rats? What ammo? How big are your Ticks? How do you get loot back to empire? What do you do when hostiles approach (keep farming? dock/pos up? refit to fight or evade)?

Who did you mission for? What kinds of LP conversions did you get?

Answer these questions honestly and i'll personally demonstrate that what you are saying is untrue.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#698 - 2013-10-25 15:14:09 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Doesnt change the basic issue of not being able to do a plex that isnt there or that someone else got to first along with the randomness of the loot drops.

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target, which requires nothing more than basic common sense, Highsec is by far the safest place to do any sort of repetetive activity such as mining or mission running. CONCORD protection, simple logistics and easy access to the busiest markets in the game makes for tasty icing on a very delicious cake.

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.


+1

These are the main reasons why null players have PVE alts. There are others, like scaling (the high sec miners will NEVER face an NPC battleship in a belt making those high sec belts worlds easier to deal with even though it's not nearly as profitable)

Going off on a slight tangent, something about this discussion with high sec people about income reminds me of just about every discussion i've seen or been in with "EFT warriors".

People who actually use ships in space try to explain "hey, we know what EFT says, but there are LOTS of other factors in what makes a ship good, there are reasons why this ship looks so good in EFT but players, gangsn and fleets don't use that ship or fit".

But time and time again the EFT warrior clings to "but EFT says this ship does x amount of dps, so it is supperior!", unwilling to understand that EHP, range, speed, EWAR/sensor strenght/lock times, agility, environment (numbers and nature of opposistion) damage application, etc etc etc actually matter more than a bottom line dps number.

It's the exact same in this thread. Yea, if you don't need isk for anything like replacing ships spent in pvp, have loads of time for yourself (because you're a solo player and thus don't have to help your corp move stuff or light cynos or empty silos or defend space), find loads of empty space because the residents are off having actual fun, etc etc, sure, what the OP does can be lucrative. But in the same way the OP is unable to understand that in general his disaterous ideas would FEED isk to the people he hates (lol), he's incapable of understanding any of the above where it concerns other people.

It boils down to a lack of the ability to empathize, which is an indicator of the Narcissistic Trait common in people who (for instance) tend to play MMOs solo......
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#699 - 2013-10-25 15:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Doesnt change the basic issue of not being able to do a plex that isnt there or that someone else got to first along with the randomness of the loot drops.

While I wont deny that if you get lucky you can make piles of isk very quickly in nullsec the reasons people go for missions in highsec are very simple - Safety and Consistancy.

Safety
Provided you do nothing to make yourself a target, which requires nothing more than basic common sense, Highsec is by far the safest place to do any sort of repetetive activity such as mining or mission running. CONCORD protection, simple logistics and easy access to the busiest markets in the game makes for tasty icing on a very delicious cake.

Consistancy
Level 4 missions are always available, always runnable and more importantly always pay the same once completed. You dont have to rely on a lucky loot table hit to make your money and calculating the time you need to invest to cover your costs is way easier.

I think this is a valid point; however I feel safer in null surrounded by blues and Intel channels. I do have to stay alert but for me it’s all about return vs. effort. I do have a hi-sec alt I use for a more casual steady income but with minimal time and effort I get a much bigger return for that time from my null sec toon.

EDIT: Let's not even start talking about escalations from those sites........right?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#700 - 2013-10-25 16:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Jenn aSide wrote:


+1

These are the main reasons why null players have PVE alts. There are others, like scaling (the high sec miners will NEVER face an NPC battleship in a belt making those high sec belts worlds easier to deal with even though it's not nearly as profitable)


I can't exactly call myself an hi sec ice miner Lol but across the years I have seen:

- Player "non NPC" disco battleships.

- Player "non NPC" MWD bump-boats (often preceeding the below...)

- Player "non NPC" 2-5 suicide gank destroyers.

- Player "non NPC" 1-2 boomerang tornadoes (now gone)

- Player "non NPC" can flippers focusing expecially if not exclusively on newbies.

- Player "non NPC" faction warfare ships of all sorts.

- Player "non NPC" wardec spamming ships that don't like to share resources.

- All of this in totally predictable and unavoidable places (ice systems are a tiny minority), where watching local my not really help a lot and where there are no intel chats nor blue tags.

All those tend to make hi sec much more of a lively place than one would believe.

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