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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

First post First post
Author
Shiva Darksun
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#701 - 2013-10-25 16:20:55 UTC
Galadriel Vasquez wrote:
Playing EVE just to accumulate ISK? Is this what it is about?Shocked


Not to me. I work in RL, and there's this balance: the more you work in RL, the lesser time you can spend in EVE. My gaming sessions don't (can't) exceed 2h a day, save for weekends when I can go upwards of 4h a day (but only in the evening EVE time). And so I rely on buying a PLEX every now and then to refill my ISK if needed. So far it wasn't needed but if that happens I know what I have to do :)

And I pay my subscription with my RL wallet too.

I play EVE for fun, and probably not unlike many other players, in my case "for fun" means that I suck at PvP and nullsec stuffz.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#702 - 2013-10-25 17:55:24 UTC
Jenn's last point, about EFT Warriors vs people who actually fly ships, really hit home with me.

Here's what I realized.

A day tripper with doctored data doesn't get to tell me that nullsec is fine.

Infinity, you don't get to have an opinion on this, because you haven't experienced it for yourself to any degree of adequacy to speak on the subject. As you emotional thinkers like to do to others, you are now disqualified from speaking on the subject due to your inexperience with the subject matter and your dishonesty about the experience you do actually have.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#703 - 2013-10-25 18:01:28 UTC
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject. their arguments stand on their own merits, not on the merits of the person making them

infinity's arguments, however, don't have merits to stand on, and have been taken to the back shed to be put down because watching them crawl around on the floor weeping for mercy was bloody depressing
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#704 - 2013-10-25 20:34:37 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#705 - 2013-10-25 20:54:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#706 - 2013-10-25 21:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


- Player "non NPC" can flippers focusing expecially if not exclusively on newbies.

.


The "newest" person I ever flipped was two months old and knew what it was but always had friends nearby to cover him (except that one time he didn't). The rest were 3-6 year old industrial characters and weekend pirates. The miners all had plenty of time to read their C&P while waiting for their cycles to finish. Many of the weekend pirates had battleship kills but still fell for a pvp mining frig.

Anyway, that's mostly gone now and in exchange for killing all the emergent play and pvp that can flipping created (security guards, hauling for mining ops and Q-ship style counter-piracy with battle barges) CCP gave us dueling....yay for more station games! Roll
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#707 - 2013-10-25 21:53:20 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


- Player "non NPC" can flippers focusing expecially if not exclusively on newbies.

.


The "newest" person I ever flipped was two months old and knew what it was but always had friends nearby to cover him (except that one time he didn't). The rest where 3-6 year old alts and weekend pirates. Many of them had battleship kills but still fell for a old pvp mining frig.

Anyway, that's mostly gone now and in exchange for killing all the emergent play and pvp that can flipping created (security guards, haulers and Q-ship style counter-piracy with battle barges) CCP gave us dueling....yay for more station games! Roll


I have to agree. The whole removal of can flipping and the new crimewatch basically exists to protect the stupid from the consequences of their actions. This is something that, as a whole, I am strongly against.

Rest in peace, Battle Badger.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#708 - 2013-10-25 21:55:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


- Player "non NPC" can flippers focusing expecially if not exclusively on newbies.

.


The "newest" person I ever flipped was two months old and knew what it was but always had friends nearby to cover him (except that one time he didn't). The rest where 3-6 year old alts and weekend pirates. Many of them had battleship kills but still fell for a old pvp mining frig.

Anyway, that's mostly gone now and in exchange for killing all the emergent play and pvp that can flipping created (security guards, haulers and Q-ship style counter-piracy with battle barges) CCP gave us dueling....yay for more station games! Roll


I have to agree. The whole removal of can flipping and the new crimewatch basically exists to protect the stupid from the consequences of their actions. This is something that, as a whole, I am strongly against.

Rest in peace, Battle Badger.


Wasn't real pvp anyway. All the fights happened in belts with nowhere to escape to with a press of a button.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#709 - 2013-10-25 22:59:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenn's last point, about EFT Warriors vs people who actually fly ships, really hit home with me.

Here's what I realized.

A day tripper with doctored data doesn't get to tell me that nullsec is fine.

Infinity, you don't get to have an opinion on this, because you haven't experienced it for yourself to any degree of adequacy to speak on the subject. As you emotional thinkers like to do to others, you are now disqualified from speaking on the subject due to your inexperience with the subject matter and your dishonesty about the experience you do actually have.

Heh, doctored data, you say.

Wait until I tell you about the success rate of Erotica 1's isk doubling

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#710 - 2013-10-26 10:07:53 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#711 - 2013-10-26 12:04:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


Spoken like a true Ziona worshipping sperge lord (see I can insult people as well). Posts that have no relationship even tangentaly to the arguement at hand, like yours for example, might as well not be made for all the contribution they make to the thread.

The way I see it it comes down to two points.

1. If you know nothing about a subject then shut the **** up about it, go away, educate yourself then come back.

2. If you dont follow point 1. dont complain when people point out you know nothing about the subject and should therefore shut the **** up, go away and educate yourself about it.



Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#712 - 2013-10-26 12:08:17 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


No, that would just be me. None of the rest of our "circle", as you put it.

And if you couldn't tell that was satirical... you may want to take a step back from the situation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#713 - 2013-10-26 13:15:32 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


Spoken like a true Ziona worshipping sperge lord (see I can insult people as well). Posts that have no relationship even tangentaly to the arguement at hand, like yours for example, might as well not be made for all the contribution they make to the thread.

The way I see it it comes down to two points.

1. If you know nothing about a subject then shut the **** up about it, go away, educate yourself then come back.

2. If you dont follow point 1. dont complain when people point out you know nothing about the subject and should therefore shut the **** up, go away and educate yourself about it.


There are a lot of people who feel as I do, I do not say that Jenn aSide and others do not know what they are talking about, they evidently do, its really a question of opinion and understanding what the person is focussed on. For example Jenn aSide always goes on about missions on the basis of how she runs them, while baltec goes on about sites being found and done based on the very crowded Goon space. My focus has always been on what the normal player does, not those that squeeze every last bit of ISK out of anything they do.

So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.



When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#714 - 2013-10-26 15:30:24 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


There are a lot of people who feel as I do, I do not say that Jenn aSide and others do not know what they are talking about, they evidently do, its really a question of opinion and understanding what the person is focussed on. For example Jenn aSide always goes on about missions on the basis of how she runs them, while baltec goes on about sites being found and done based on the very crowded Goon space. My focus has always been on what the normal player does, not those that squeeze every last bit of ISK out of anything they do.

So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.





So i guess my Raven and Domi mission runing ships are full of magic. Or it takes magic to look up EVE-Survival or Ogrank or Ellatha

What you don't get is that I AM the average mission runner. I'm not flying 5 bil with of mission ship. I'm flying tech 1 battleships with MJDs. Nothing magical about it.

It's not my fault is other people are so "casual" (read: lazy) that they can't use google.

And no one is saying you cannot make is isk in null I do so every single night. we're saying that (ill underline becauase for some reason some of you cannot internalize this point, just like my "EFT warrior" comparison) There are reasons why experienced and intelligent null pilots keep high sec isk making alts and why large swaths of nullsec are "empty.

And not, it has nothiong to do with being scared or being unable to do anything without a blob like you and others want to believe. It's a simple, rational analysis of the best use of isk making time by people who know what they are doing. The best use of isk making time (for people who have other things to do like real life or even in game activities) is using the safety of high sec incursions or missions (or mining afk in a not stupidly untanked ship while doing other things) as opposed to the chance based and time intensive ways of null sec (where CONCORD won't come and save you from aggression).

This points to a general imbalance, high sec is in many way way to good (which is why I and others who'd rather be full time "out of high sec" guys are instead in high sec, I'd LOVE to be flying with low sec incursion communities, but there are none and attempts to make one always fail because incursion runners can't stand the idea of losing even the occasional t1 BS....)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#715 - 2013-10-26 15:39:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


No, that would just be me. None of the rest of our "circle", as you put it.

And if you couldn't tell that was satirical... you may want to take a step back from the situation.


Don't worry brothers, when I am elected "Chairman and Glorious leader of the CSM for life", Clan Infinity and all those od the house or DracVlad will be the 1st agains the wall in Jita!

Twisted
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#716 - 2013-10-26 15:43:04 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


The funniest thing is when someone on these forums claims sanity but demonstrates otherwise. Benny wasn't saying anything of the sort about US allowing anyone to do anything, he was saying that we are ALL allowed our opinions about things.

GD is like real life, you never have to "win" an argument, you just have to give the other side enough rope to hang themselves with...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#717 - 2013-10-26 15:46:24 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.

in npc nullsec?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#718 - 2013-10-26 16:51:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


There are a lot of people who feel as I do, I do not say that Jenn aSide and others do not know what they are talking about, they evidently do, its really a question of opinion and understanding what the person is focussed on. For example Jenn aSide always goes on about missions on the basis of how she runs them, while baltec goes on about sites being found and done based on the very crowded Goon space. My focus has always been on what the normal player does, not those that squeeze every last bit of ISK out of anything they do.

So lets repeat it so that even the cicle jerkers get it, for the average more casual and time limited player, doing anoms, with escalations and the odd site in 0.0 is the best and most efficient way to make ISK as compared to doing hisec missions.



So i guess my Raven and Domi mission runing ships are full of magic. Or it takes magic to look up EVE-Survival or Ogrank or Ellatha

What you don't get is that I AM the average mission runner. I'm not flying 5 bil with of mission ship. I'm flying tech 1 battleships with MJDs. Nothing magical about it.

It's not my fault is other people are so "casual" (read: lazy) that they can't use google.

And no one is saying you cannot make is isk in null I do so every single night. we're saying that (ill underline becauase for some reason some of you cannot internalize this point, just like my "EFT warrior" comparison) There are reasons why experienced and intelligent null pilots keep high sec isk making alts and why large swaths of nullsec are "empty.

And not, it has nothiong to do with being scared or being unable to do anything without a blob like you and others want to believe. It's a simple, rational analysis of the best use of isk making time by people who know what they are doing. The best use of isk making time (for people who have other things to do like real life or even in game activities) is using the safety of high sec incursions or missions (or mining afk in a not stupidly untanked ship while doing other things) as opposed to the chance based and time intensive ways of null sec (where CONCORD won't come and save you from aggression).

This points to a general imbalance, high sec is in many way way to good (which is why I and others who'd rather be full time "out of high sec" guys are instead in high sec, I'd LOVE to be flying with low sec incursion communities, but there are none and attempts to make one always fail because incursion runners can't stand the idea of losing even the occasional t1 BS....)


Lets take your example of a Raven and Domi, the Domi becomes especially effective with T2 sentries, its only just recently that T2 sentries were trained by PvP players due initially to the Slowcats, then followed by the Domi's and other drone boats that N3 and now others use, that means that a lot of people are still to train into them, my main being one such example, second example is that my second account has a specific Amarr combat toon and an industrial toon, I do not run the number of accounts that you do, neither am I as old as you. And most of my time was in 0.0. I decided early on not to go too mad on accounts, one I was happy to fund my accounts with RL cash and second thing I was not keen to get into the plex grind. And assuming I don't know Eve-Survival, Roll I recognise that my mission running is sub-optimal and I am going to be working on that, but other needs get in the way, such as PvP training... The thing is most players I know have two accounts just like me and this is another issue in terms of level 4's ignoring the fanatic level 4 mission runner, how many people who try all facets of Eve and dojn't run more than 2 accounts are going to be fully optimal.

I agree with you that having those mission toons is a good idea, because you will get camped in 0.0, and you quite rightly pointed out that if you are doing other things in RL or in a fleet missions are good, something I mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course if you are in an Incurison doing DPS then you can get by without being on Incursion comms and firing on the targetted one. I agree with you here.

I don't for one moment think its anything to do with the blob, whatever you mean by that, though another aspect is that people have to adjust their fittings in 0.0 to be able to PvP or avoid PvP which makes their ships sub-optimal when doing PvE in 0.0, and this does have an impact on their thinking.

I don't agree with the balance concept, so much when it comes down to the desire for people to nerf level 4 missions, I see no need whatsoever to do. Especially as many people like myself use missions at times for ISK when we cannot be bothered to do anything more difficult, in fact I only do missions now because I have no desire to do much in games and often after one or two I decide to call it a day. So as such I do not really disagree with you in terms of the ease of doing them and taht you can do other things.

The low sec incursion, with a certain super as a prize, I agree with you that it is stupid that these people will not even take a T1 BS with T2 fittings into low sec, however I guess it comes down to the issues around trust in this game, you really cannot trust anyone when it comes down to a possible kill and that is why I think you will never see a low sec incursion group outside of major alliances. It would be good however.

I don't want to see level 4's nerfed, and I don't think that it should be because people in 0.0 have high sec mission alts, that points to an inbalance with 0.0 more than anything else, perhaps that pesky cloaky camper has something to do with it...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#719 - 2013-10-26 16:54:24 UTC
Quote:
The low sec incursion, with a certain super as a prize, I agree with you that it is stupid that these people will not even take a T1 BS with T2 fittings into low sec, however I guess it comes down to the issues around trust in this game, you really cannot trust anyone when it comes down to a possible kill and that is why I think you will never see a low sec incursion group outside of major alliances. It would be good however.


With the new jammer, this might actually happen. Otherwise they'd just get dropped by PL or somebody. But yes in general it's a pretty bad idea.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#720 - 2013-10-26 16:55:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually. a person who is inexperienced is allowed to have an opinion, and is allowed to argue on the subject.


ShockedOopsRoll Wow, just wow!!!

does the infinity ziona fanclub have an objection


Spoken like a true Jenn aSide brown matter licker, but the comment was to say that you and your circle jerk friends seem to think that you allow others to post, rather amusing to see you come out and say that.


The funniest thing is when someone on these forums claims sanity but demonstrates otherwise. Benny wasn't saying anything of the sort about US allowing anyone to do anything, he was saying that we are ALL allowed our opinions about things.

GD is like real life, you never have to "win" an argument, you just have to give the other side enough rope to hang themselves with...


Noticing that there is a circle of people around you sucking up to your posts, so much its embarassing (for them), and he was saying that people were allowed and inferring people were not allowed, it looked very much like he was getting all victorious because the OP has not posted in a while!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp