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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-10-16 04:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.

There are often calls to nerf nerf nerf missions in high sec and buff null sec to encourage people to move out of high sec.

About a month ago somebody ask me to test out my theory that null sec income is already vastly superior to high sec, which I believed to be true, based on my observations of null seccers running sanctums in complete safety in deep null.

So I took it upon myself to grab a couple of battleships, sneak them through a wormhole and run some sanctums myself in Goonsec.

I made around 80 million isk per hour. However I suspected that I could do quite a lot better so I did a bit of research and fitted out a passive Proteus and run some combat sites.

I made between 100 and 500 million an hour depending on the drops but the going was quite slow and I had a lot of sites stolen before completion since I'm plexing in hostile space. So I did some more research and discovered that a properly fit Ishtar can run virtually any serpentis / guristas null site.

Yesterday I made 1 billion isk in 45 minutes running The Maze, a few minutes before that I ran a Guristas Military Operations Complex and made an additional 500 million or so. Apart from the modules I looted 2 faction BS BPC's worth 600 million. I think in total I made 2 billion on both sites. About 2 hours worth of combat sites.

I can easily make a billion isk per day running between 2 and 5 sites. Sure some don't drop anything, but the majority do. The Guristas Military Operations site has 3 guaranteed (1 Hac, 2 BS) dread guristas spawns plus a 100 million in OE. The Maze is guaranteed to drop 160 mill OE and will usually drop Pith X-Type loot worth hundreds of millions.

The most common sites can be run in minutes, with a good chance at a DG battleship or an escalation to a DG BS.

I will never waste my time running L4 missions, or even L5 missions when even as a ninja plexer, who needs to cloak up for hours sometimes when Goons come into system with their silly probes, can make a billion or more a day.

Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.

Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#2 - 2013-10-16 05:17:35 UTC
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!

You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.

Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-10-16 05:22:01 UTC
As I've said before, it's not about how much money you can make in either place, it's how much effort is needed for a given amount of money.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-10-16 05:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!

You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.

Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference.

You realize that in a combat site you cannot be hot dropped and you also cannot be surprised now that a cloaky must uncloak to use an acceleration gate? You can also drop a couple of cans at the warp in point to decloak any cloaky you miss using the acceleration gate. The majority are multiple gated sites so cloaky must use multiple gates and slow boat to each acceleration gate.

If you have an alt on the entry gate there is 0% chance you'll ever be surprised by a cloaky since you'll see them uncloak. Been out there for a month deep in Goon space and haven't so much as been locked by a Goon. You would have to be blind and completely wasted to get caught in a combat site.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-10-16 05:34:38 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!

You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.

Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference.


The ishtar will shoot a 15m tick in a low end gurista anom (forlorn rally point and forlorn den). It will do close on 20m tick in a hub, which I'll have when I next import a PDA (jump freighter task), but I'll probably go over to battleship ratting for that too.

I got 3 8/10s and 2 6/10s spawn last month. I generally keep an eye on evemaps so I have an idea if others have cleared combat content out of my TZ.

All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content.
Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-16 05:42:12 UTC
CCP nerf guristas

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-10-16 05:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
meh, yea agreed!
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#8 - 2013-10-16 06:18:08 UTC
I don't even know anymore. I know scams in highsec pay about 3x what scams in nullsec pay. Why are you playing the game? Play against the players. There's where the isk is.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-10-16 06:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Gogela wrote:
I don't even know anymore. I know scams in highsec pay about 3x what scams in nullsec pay. Why are you playing the game? Play against the players. There's where the isk is.

Scams are for girls


Tauranon wrote:
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!

You can even bring the noctis out, unescorted.

Seriously though, my null adventure involved a tachy oracle and excitement when I got a 5 mil tick. I cant imagine it's a guristas/bloods difference.


...

All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content.

Nah. I'll just move somewhere else. I don't have a base.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Prince Kobol
#10 - 2013-10-16 06:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Infinity Ziona wrote:
There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.

There are often calls to nerf nerf nerf missions in high sec and buff null sec to encourage people to move out of high sec.

About a month ago somebody ask me to test out my theory that null sec income is already vastly superior to high sec, which I believed to be true, based on my observations of null seccers running sanctums in complete safety in deep null.

So I took it upon myself to grab a couple of battleships, sneak them through a wormhole and run some sanctums myself in Goonsec.

I made around 80 million isk per hour. However I suspected that I could do quite a lot better so I did a bit of research and fitted out a passive Proteus and run some combat sites.

I made between 100 and 500 million an hour depending on the drops but the going was quite slow and I had a lot of sites stolen before completion since I'm plexing in hostile space. So I did some more research and discovered that a properly fit Ishtar can run virtually any serpentis / guristas null site.

Yesterday I made 1 billion isk in 45 minutes running The Maze, a few minutes before that I ran a Guristas Military Operations Complex and made an additional 500 million or so. Apart from the modules I looted 2 faction BS BPC's worth 600 million. I think in total I made 2 billion on both sites. About 2 hours worth of combat sites.

I can easily make a billion isk per day running between 2 and 5 sites. Sure some don't drop anything, but the majority do. The Guristas Military Operations site has 3 guaranteed (1 Hac, 2 BS) dread guristas spawns plus a 100 million in OE. The Maze is guaranteed to drop 160 mill OE and will usually drop Pith X-Type loot worth hundreds of millions.

The most common sites can be run in minutes, with a good chance at a DG battleship or an escalation to a DG BS.

I will never waste my time running L4 missions, or even L5 missions when even as a ninja plexer, who needs to cloak up for hours sometimes when Goons come into system with their silly probes, can make a billion or more a day.

Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.

Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know.


Whilst this may be true the issue is that only a few pilots per day can run these sites, what about the thousands of others?

The competition is insane.

In HS you can run lvl4 missions for as long as you can stay conscious for in relative safety. Yeah the isk isn't great, but the difference is that you can run them non-stop and you are not competing with anybody else so you more or less have a guaranteed income.

Hence the number of bots running L4's
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#11 - 2013-10-16 06:57:48 UTC
Tauranon wrote:


The ishtar will shoot a 15m tick in a low end gurista anom (forlorn rally point and forlorn den). It will do close on 20m tick in a hub, which I'll have when I next import a PDA (jump freighter task), but I'll probably go over to battleship ratting for that too.

I got 3 8/10s and 2 6/10s spawn last month. I generally keep an eye on evemaps so I have an idea if others have cleared combat content out of my TZ.

All that has to happen to Ziona is an explorer finds her range area in the TZ ahead of her, and that whole area will be screwed as she has no agreement with nearby people to not take all the content, and that person will just log on, day after day taking all the content.



This is where another nullsec perk kicks in, vast swathes of empty empty space. Odds are when you see one or two "property owners" in local, they aren't in that constellation for the PVE.

So there is likely a large amount of this content that goes untapped, simply for lack of willingness to move.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#12 - 2013-10-16 07:00:36 UTC
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-16 07:05:53 UTC
Rumtin wrote:
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites.

If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-10-16 07:19:46 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Rumtin wrote:
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites.

If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel?

Well I plexed in Pure Blind, Fountain, Stain, Period Basis, Paragon Soul, pretty much where the wormholes take me and there are plexes everywhere, they constantly respawn. The Maze I ran the other day was there for 24 hours, I saw it late at night and was too tired to run it logged in the next day and it was still there. Its supposed to be one of the best to run. People that say they are fought over likely are speaking of sites one or two jumps from their home systems.

You're right, so much space, so many sites to run. Even the low end ones, like bases, which everyone seem to ignore are very profitable. They take 2 minutes to complete and most often have a faction BS or an escalation in which you warp in, pop a single faction battleship, loot and hopefully get a further escalation to another very easy faction battleship...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#15 - 2013-10-16 07:21:20 UTC
There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#16 - 2013-10-16 07:22:27 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Rumtin wrote:
Agreed, the isk figures are higher so in theory you're making a lot more per tick, but the fact you have yourself and 30+ other ships to contend with means you don't always get to run the sites.

If a solo ninja can find an empty system for themselves, why can't a sov holder with maps/bridges/intel?


Because corps have to come to agreements about content otherwise alliances won't function, where as all a neut cares about is "is the system empty in my TZ".
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-16 07:23:38 UTC
Hi,

you have found out about complex running. It is the good stuff.

Spod
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#18 - 2013-10-16 07:25:31 UTC
I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I don’t understand why anyone would run missions in highsec.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#19 - 2013-10-16 07:37:13 UTC
What's the Ishtar fit? I have no clue about PvE fits but those sure are tempting sums :)

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ivain Freir
Archetype Industries
#20 - 2013-10-16 07:41:01 UTC
In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.
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