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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-04-08 15:18:37 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
[quote=Kristoffon Ellecon]Please carry changes over to faction versions.

RIP Bhaalgorn.

Edit: also keep in mind the Apoc is the only Amarr BS for cap-stable pve missions so I would make sure those are still doable after the change lest amarr pvers lose their platforms.

I've never had issues once I got my skills right with fitting cap stable 'baddons. under their current statistics for PVE./quote]


-edited for better clarity-
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-04-08 15:21:27 UTC
So the geddon will be a poor man's bhaal with drones?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#43 - 2013-04-08 15:24:38 UTC
Abaddon - I like the changes, they seem fair as the Abaddon is a dominator when it comes to subcap PvP, only thing it relies on TOO much is capacitor, and it has NONE (this needs improving/buffing very slightly).

Apoc - The Apoc was a ship of choice because it had a capacitor bonus and a range bonus, a tracking bonus is literally useless as most already have a TE / 2x TC on to counteract the loss. Saying that, I don't mind extra tracking if it's free ^^

Armageddon - huehuehue... I like it! I think it's cool! it'll be interesting to see how this works out on the battlefield now, I like the fact it has no neutralising bonus, but now to make the Bhaalgorn more suited, the Bhaal needs a neut range AND amount bonus, that way you seem like you have the Minmatar AND Amarr side of things. Screw the web bonus imo.
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-04-08 15:26:05 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
So the geddon will be a poor man's bhaal with drones?

No, think of it more as a grown up version of the Arbitrator/Curse, personally, I think it's going to be A LOT of fun!
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-04-08 15:26:48 UTC
So a laser boat with the Gall tracking bonus, so it can hit out forever with lolscorch AND track like a mega? Soooo why fly a Mega?

And like the prophecy you have now made yet again a superior drone boat in comparison to the domi.
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-04-08 15:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelea Ming
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Abaddon - I like the changes, they seem fair as the Abaddon is a dominator when it comes to subcap PvP, only thing it relies on TOO much is capacitor, and it has NONE (this needs improving/buffing very slightly).
-Agreement

Quote:
Apoc - The Apoc was a ship of choice because it had a capacitor bonus and a range bonus, a tracking bonus is literally useless as most already have a TE / 2x TC on to counteract the loss. Saying that, I don't mind extra tracking if it's free ^^
- Still think it needs some help on PG and Tachs, and Cap and Tachs (perhaps the Tach's themselves need to be re-balanced?)

Quote:
Armageddon - huehuehue... I like it! I think it's cool! it'll be interesting to see how this works out on the battlefield now, I like the fact it has no neutralising bonus, but now to make the Bhaalgorn more suited, the Bhaal needs a neut range AND amount bonus, that way you seem like you have the Minmatar AND Amarr side of things. Screw the web bonus imo.
- I'm definately thinking that these changes are going to **** off a lot of 'Geddon targets in the future :)


-edited: fixed typo-
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-04-08 15:29:41 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
So a laser boat with the Gall tracking bonus, so it can hit out forever with lolscorch AND track like a mega? Soooo why fly a Mega?

And like the prophecy you have now made yet again a superior drone boat in comparison to the domi.

They are making changes to the Domi as well, and they look rather promising.
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#48 - 2013-04-08 15:34:28 UTC
Upon further thought.. The Armageddon might end up being too good for its own good.

No, it doesn't have a neuting amount bonus. But who needs that if you have 100 geddons in fleet?

100+ cap-chaining heavy neut-fit geddons with T2 sentries will be a 50km sphere of instakill (and of course viable beyond that range as well). There's no way for brawlers to kill them, they will just get capped out.

It looks like a really fun fleet concept until you realize that the best counter to this is the same counter all battleship fleets have.. Alphafleet. Yet even more alpha proliferation, which is pretty damn boring.
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-04-08 15:36:47 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Upon further thought.. The Armageddon might end up being too good for its own good.

No, it doesn't have a neuting amount bonus. But who needs that if you have 100 geddons in fleet?

100+ cap-chaining heavy neut-fit geddons with T2 sentries will be a 50km sphere of instakill (and of course viable beyond that range as well). There's no way for brawlers to kill them, they will just get capped out.

It looks like a really fun fleet concept until you realize that the best counter to this is the same counter all battleship fleets have.. Alphafleet. Yet even more alpha proliferation, which is pretty damn boring.

or just a good stealth bomber fleet, bombs to kill the sentries, torps to kill the ships, hit and run to avoid losses where possible... but all fleet concepts have counters, including, if you take the time to think about it, your alpha fleets.
Bluemelon
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#50 - 2013-04-08 15:36:49 UTC
I am all for most of these changes.


My once concern with the geddon is that it will completely marginalise the Lowsec and WH Bhaalgorns.

The neut range bonus will be better than the neut amount bonus in the long run. Which means either the Bhaal needs a slight tweak or the bonus needs to be rethought

Blue

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Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-04-08 15:39:36 UTC
Bluemelon wrote:
I am all for most of these changes.


My once concern with the geddon is that it will completely marginalise the Lowsec and WH Bhaalgorns.

The neut range bonus will be better than the neut amount bonus in the long run. Which means either the Bhaal needs a slight tweak or the bonus needs to be rethought

Blue

I agree that the Bhaal will need some love (so will the Nightmare with the proposed Apoc changes, btw), but I also realize that they will eventually get to doing so... look at the progression of ship classes they've been doing changes to already, the Pirate hulls are just being left till last.
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-04-08 15:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
and it's times like these that the forums need a version of the in-game "block" feature.

Edit: The above post was edited out. But for clarification, that function exists. Click on the little yellow/orange down-pointing arrow on the left side of the characters name. In the resulting menu choose 'Hide Posts'. You will never see a post of that character again. ISD Ezwal.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#53 - 2013-04-08 15:46:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP Rise wrote:
After a few iterations we've decided to remove the cap use bonus and add a tracking bonus to the Apocalypse


you are my favorite dev now!

edit: also, dat geddon! looking forward to it but it is a bit strange that the faction variants have nothing in common with their T1 hull anymore (otherwise you would have to comvert the navy geddon into a bhaalgorn)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#54 - 2013-04-08 15:46:39 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Upon further thought.. The Armageddon might end up being too good for its own good.

No, it doesn't have a neuting amount bonus. But who needs that if you have 100 geddons in fleet?

100+ cap-chaining heavy neut-fit geddons with T2 sentries will be a 50km sphere of instakill (and of course viable beyond that range as well). There's no way for brawlers to kill them, they will just get capped out.

It looks like a really fun fleet concept until you realize that the best counter to this is the same counter all battleship fleets have.. Alphafleet. Yet even more alpha proliferation, which is pretty damn boring.

or just a good stealth bomber fleet, bombs to kill the sentries, torps to kill the ships, hit and run to avoid losses where possible... but all fleet concepts have counters, including, if you take the time to think about it, your alpha fleets.

Absolutely, alphafleet is a very narrow fleet concept that is only really good against other battleship fleets. If faced with tech 3 cruisers it's generally a pile of scrap that's lucky to still be flying.

I don't think it's a fun fleet or even a fleet that should exist. It's boring for everyone involved. Unfortunately the meta dictates it is needed, because if you don't fly it and you decide brawling battleships are more fun, someone else will turn up with rail rokhs or arty maels and alpha you.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-04-08 15:46:57 UTC
The Rebalanced Abaddon isn't really rebalanced and didn't need no changes. All is good.



The rebalanced Apocalypse will indeed become the n°1 battleship for damage application with all those bonuses.

As a trade-out, its tank is sub-par, which is good.

I like those changes very much. The Apocalypse won't really be used as much as the Abaddon, but it will be a Naga-fleet-killer. Very good job on that.



The rebalanced Armageddon has been sent by God itself. No question. It owns so much.

I'm not attached to certain ships behaving certain ways so I don't really miss the "Old X". Instead I look forward to the new things I can do with the "New X". And that ship whisper things in my ear such as "37.5km triple neutras" or "1200 DPS with Gardes II and Megapulses".

It is music to my ears. Thank you very much for those changes. I didn't fly Amarr Battleships all that much previously, but I will make sure to try this new Armageddon !
Veyer Erastus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-04-08 15:47:41 UTC
I believe such changes are really bad. As a pretty much fresh pilot i already felt amarr ships being not as good as, say, minmatar, cause of armor tanking problems and how much capacitor dependent they are. So, apoc was one BS i was looking forward to, as his cap bonus made it newbie friendly and could be flown without spending a few months for all capacitor related skills. Now it's impossible. I don't believe ammar need a nerf. They need a buff.
Pelea Ming
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2013-04-08 15:50:27 UTC
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
Beaver Retriever wrote:
Upon further thought.. The Armageddon might end up being too good for its own good.

No, it doesn't have a neuting amount bonus. But who needs that if you have 100 geddons in fleet?

100+ cap-chaining heavy neut-fit geddons with T2 sentries will be a 50km sphere of instakill (and of course viable beyond that range as well). There's no way for brawlers to kill them, they will just get capped out.

It looks like a really fun fleet concept until you realize that the best counter to this is the same counter all battleship fleets have.. Alphafleet. Yet even more alpha proliferation, which is pretty damn boring.

or just a good stealth bomber fleet, bombs to kill the sentries, torps to kill the ships, hit and run to avoid losses where possible... but all fleet concepts have counters, including, if you take the time to think about it, your alpha fleets.

Absolutely, alphafleet is a very narrow fleet concept that is only really good against other battleship fleets. If faced with tech 3 cruisers it's generally a pile of scrap that's lucky to still be flying.

I don't think it's a fun fleet or even a fleet that should exist. It's boring for everyone involved. Unfortunately the meta dictates it is needed, because if you don't fly it and you decide brawling battleships are more fun, someone else will turn up with rail rokhs or arty maels and alpha you.

So have your brawler fleet include a wing of cruisers, lol.
ZD LoveMe
uncooperative freight company
#58 - 2013-04-08 15:51:04 UTC
A bit late for april fools...
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-04-08 15:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
10% range per level range for large neuts will make it 36km range much like the curse does how do you expect anything to get close to this thing combined with scorch makes the apoc too OP now.

Im also concerned about the amount of ships with missile capability its reducing amount of neutable and TD opportunities.
Its also i thought a khanid thing at T2 level why is there so much at T1 level for amarr?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

fukier
#60 - 2013-04-08 15:55:10 UTC
any chance you guys will lower PG on tachs since they are no longer considered over-sized weapons anymore... i mean hey guys it aint 2005 no more get with D times...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.