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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Shani Mukantagara
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#101 - 2013-04-08 17:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Battleships are hardly used any more and its hard enough to find battleships to fight, not every one fly's around in cheap t1 frigs and bcs!!!!!

Abaddon

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 8 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 21000 PWG, 560 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000 / 8500 / 8000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 6375 / 1250s / 5.1
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 89 / .14 / 125000000 / 20.03s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 470

Abaddon's will never be able to last in fleet fights without an energy feed (it is hard enough to keep the Abaddon's capped up as it is, in the passed I have had an alt in a logi domi feeding my Abaddon because it was that bad keeping every one shooting.

It is getting harder and harder to tank the insane alpha that's around these days, there is no need for a nerf on a battleship tank.

Apocalypse:

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 21000 PWG(+500), 540 CPU(+35)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 6800(-700) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 6700(-800) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.69 (+.19)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

The tracking change is a good change, The nerf on the Cap and the buff to max velocity is confusing as the Apoc has always been the cap heavy Amarr boat, what is 113 velocity going to do for a battleship ??


Armageddon:

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M(+1), 7L(-1); 5 turrets(-2) , 5 launchers(+5)
Fittings: 14500 PWG(-2000), 550 CPU(+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(+1331) / 8500(+1859) / 8000(+1789)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6200(+887.5) / 1087s / 5.7
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 100(-5) / .13(+.002) / 105200000 / 18.96s (+.29)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(+250)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Radar Sensor Strength (+4)
Signature radius: 450 (+80)

Drone damage and Hit point change is completely useless, Drones are useless against today's Naga fleets.

Dual heavy pulse geddon is an awesome damage dealer, my preferred standard battleship its like a glass cannon
If you want to nuet you INVEST ISK into a Faction Battle ship that is designed for Neutralizing.

These silly changes to battleships will just make these 0.0 alliance stick with silly Naga's more and more.

Create a new subclass of battleship and leave the current ones as they are!
Novacrow
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2013-04-08 17:12:35 UTC
Marlyrel wrote:
Are there changes coming on how much CAP the Large Lasers take?
The apoc used to be a really fun PVE ship since you didn't HAVE to use a stupid cap booster.
Now with the bonus gone you'll either have to lose a crapton of DPS by fitting more cap rechargers or fit that stupid cap booster again.

Please rethink taking away the bonuses


I really thing they need to rethink the cap needs of lasers in general. To me they just do not seem that good at all over other weapon systems...

Sure scorch is great, but I just feel lasers are too cap dependent. Amarr ships in general are very vulnerable to both TD and Neuting. There is no other weapon system that has two significant weaknesses like this. You can argue hybrids do as well, but they require much less cap.

Also the great optimal is only great in ships where you can dictate range...most amarr ships cannot do this because of armor tanking and the lack of mid slots.

I know this is a off topic, but laser cap issues should be addressed, or just buff the cap on the apoc a little more.
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-04-08 17:12:39 UTC
Interesting changes....

I agree that Amarr should get a Droneboat Battleship... Not too keen on the choice. I would have thought the Abbaddon would be a better droneboat choice (it just looks like it). Eitherway.

They really can't give the Armageddon a + bonus to amount of neut/nos. It'd be overkill for a T1 battleship (using battleship size neuts).

I'm somewhat 50/50 on this. Now I've used Neut Prophecys, and they are FUN.. Having an actual ship with neut Bonuses.. Well it'll be interesting. Would need testing.

It is a nice change, though like most, the Armageddon's basically gone. I would probably swap the Abaddon for the Armageddon (just an opinion, Abaddon just looks more like a droneboat).
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#104 - 2013-04-08 17:21:17 UTC
The geddon neut range bonus makes it very strong against nanoing small gangs, particularly cruisers. 2 heavy neuts (1 in most cases after the target has been mwding and shooting and pointing), will 1 shot a cruisers cap. Lets say you are in an omen navy issue, using your 40km range to slowly kill something. Geddon has 50km neut range, and it cycles 2 neuts on you.

Bang, you are out of cap. You cant shoot, cant mwd. It can do this to 3-7 cruisers at once. BCs are a little better off, it takes 4 heavy neuts to 1 shot their cap.

The geddon bonus is also not useful at all in big fleet fights, in cap fights (where you want an 8 highslot battleship since you want neut amount, not neut range), in wh fights (bhaalgorn) or in logi supported brawls (where you want the faster cycling neuts from a curse to break energy chains).

Its super good against nanoing cruisers and bcs though....
BarryBonez
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-04-08 17:25:43 UTC
Novacrow wrote:
Marlyrel wrote:
Are there changes coming on how much CAP the Large Lasers take?
The apoc used to be a really fun PVE ship since you didn't HAVE to use a stupid cap booster.
Now with the bonus gone you'll either have to lose a crapton of DPS by fitting more cap rechargers or fit that stupid cap booster again.

Please rethink taking away the bonuses


I really thing they need to rethink the cap needs of lasers in general. To me they just do not seem that good at all over other weapon systems...

Sure scorch is great, but I just feel lasers are too cap dependent. Amarr ships in general are very vulnerable to both TD and Neuting. There is no other weapon system that has two significant weaknesses like this. You can argue hybrids do as well, but they require much less cap.

Also the great optimal is only great in ships where you can dictate range...most amarr ships cannot do this because of armor tanking and the lack of mid slots.

I know this is a off topic, but laser cap issues should be addressed, or just buff the cap on the apoc a little more.


This pretty much sums it up. Seeing huge chunks of cap disappear just to fire your guns is rough. Especially if you try to solo in any of these ships... prolonged fights are daunting as cap dwindles. If the enemy brings any sort of neut along, you are completely out of luck.

The Abaddon is cool, but also way too damn expensive.
Silver Chair
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-04-08 17:25:48 UTC
Any changes that have the Null Bros this all in a tiffy can only be good. Two thumbs upAttention
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#107 - 2013-04-08 17:27:27 UTC
OMG why the Armageddon its losing 2 slots!? the idea is sound and ******* nice, like a sort of cheap bhaalgorn but 2 ******* slots!? it needs that low slot.

if you take 2 slots from it, you wont have enough low slots for the drone modules and tank, since the medium slots will be dedicated to capacitor warfare, it could be an AWESOME pvp ship, but it needs that low slot.
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2013-04-08 17:28:11 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


Ah well, I'm sure you've got more of a vision and plan than I do. :(

-Liang


I truly highly doubt that liang What?

Not sure if this is s'pose to be a compliment to you, or a slight toward the current balance team.
Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
#109 - 2013-04-08 17:28:30 UTC
" 10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use) " Shocked

Please for the love of god say this isn't per level.

With boosts it will point at @ 35 k. By the time a Mega or Hype gets within 15 k they wont have a drop of cap left.

Worse, you gave it a capless weapons systemUgh. Wow.

I applaud the novelty of it, but wow this is a horrible idea in a T1 hull.

There was a reason that the Talos had the web bonus dropped fast. It treads to close and deep into T2 range and it destabilizes the field.
Cameron Cahill
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2013-04-08 17:29:49 UTC
Surely its daft to change the % bonus to resists on ONLY the battleships? Leave it alone for now, fix all of the ships that have this bonus at the same time.

Also, Put the geddon back, amarr don't need a droneboat in every damned tier, all you are doing is making the curse even more useless by comparison.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2013-04-08 17:31:55 UTC
Shani Mukantagara wrote:
Petition to remove Kill2 from CCP Dev team.

Clearly Kill2 has never used a battleship in the last 3 years of EVE

Battleships are hardly used any more and its hard enough to find battleships to fight, not every one fly's around in cheap t1 frigs and bcs!!!!!

Abaddon

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)
Quote:
ignoring the rest of your rant for the minute, don't misquote the Dev, the abbadon is keeping 4% (out of it's current 5%) per level resist bonus, and is not getting a tracking speed boost at all.
{quote}Abaddon's will never be able to last in fleet fights without an energy feed (it is hard enough to keep the Abaddon's capped up as it is, in the passed I have had an alt in a logi domi feeding my Abaddon because it was that bad keeping every one shooting.
once you fix your obvious misquotes (are you just trolling?) this statement looks rather idiotic.

Armageddon:

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Drone damage and Hit point change is completely useless, Drones are useless against today's Naga fleets.

Dual heavy pulse geddon is an awesome damage dealer, my preferred standard battleship its like a glass cannon
If you want to nuet you INVEST ISK into a Faction Battle ship that is designed for Neutralizing.

These silly changes to battleships will just make these 0.0 alliance stick with silly Naga's more and more.
Hmm.. correct me if I'm wrong, but Naga's use Hybrid Turrets, which require cap, and, OH GEE! the new 'Geddon likes to Nuet!
Cy4nid3
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-04-08 17:33:43 UTC
Seriously ... ?
RIP Armageddon. Can't find words for that ...
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#113 - 2013-04-08 17:33:47 UTC
HOLY **** SO AWESOME! Amarr will be the new standard just saying.

geddon so good suck it crap matar!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#114 - 2013-04-08 17:34:55 UTC
I am really sad to see that amarr boats lose launcher slots. Amarr do have drones for omni damage but being too tied to lasers make Amarr BS not good choice to fly. Yes lasers are good for many targets but amarr BS are complete crap against rival faction ships and even their own pirate faction.

In short apart from armageddon changes, I am against of the policy of which are used to base to make these changes.

Please do not make 1 weapon system boats. This makes the EVE experience dull due you cannot customize your boat to fit your skills and your way of flying.

If you could rather minnyfied the other bses so that each BS would would 2-3 slots to choose if you wanted to have cruises or turrets. This would make the ships more omni wise and more interesting to fly. Now you are reducing the fun factor!

Please do not remove launcher slots! From any BS that currently have them!!!
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2013-04-08 17:35:41 UTC
Ayla Crenshaw wrote:
As a relatively fresh player I can only say that taking away Apocalypse cap use bonus is a horrible idea and you should feel bad for even thinking it was good.

This really screws over low-skilled Amarr players, especially in PvE. This thing is barely capstable as it is with only guns and hardeners running without great capacitor/cap use skills.


I'm inclined to agree with this. The cap bonus and the range bonus of the Apoc really set this apart for PvE. I remember the days/month before I got perfect cap skills and doing low skilled PvE with Amarr battleships was a real exercise. The cap bonus on the Apoc/NApoc was a really strong incentive to train BS V.

And the cap bonus allowed for creative non-capstable fits using the large cap pool for things like a MWD fit apoc. Please consider the PvE aspects of these changes as well.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Templis CALSF
#116 - 2013-04-08 17:35:45 UTC
I had and have major concerns about the Apoc's cap and massive HP reduction post-change.

Also yes, the Geddon may be a bit *too* good

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Cy4nid3
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#117 - 2013-04-08 17:36:05 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Shani Mukantagara wrote:
Petition to remove Kill2 from CCP Dev team.

Clearly Kill2 has never used a battleship in the last 3 years of EVE

Battleships are hardly used any more and its hard enough to find battleships to fight, not every one fly's around in cheap t1 frigs and bcs!!!!!

Abaddon

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret optimal range
+7.5% Large Energy Turret tracking speed (replaced large energy turret cap use)
Quote:
ignoring the rest of your rant for the minute, don't misquote the Dev, the abbadon is keeping 4% (out of it's current 5%) per level resist bonus, and is not getting a tracking speed boost at all.
{quote}Abaddon's will never be able to last in fleet fights without an energy feed (it is hard enough to keep the Abaddon's capped up as it is, in the passed I have had an alt in a logi domi feeding my Abaddon because it was that bad keeping every one shooting.
once you fix your obvious misquotes (are you just trolling?) this statement looks rather idiotic.

Armageddon:

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Drone damage and Hit point change is completely useless, Drones are useless against today's Naga fleets.

Dual heavy pulse geddon is an awesome damage dealer, my preferred standard battleship its like a glass cannon
If you want to nuet you INVEST ISK into a Faction Battle ship that is designed for Neutralizing.

These silly changes to battleships will just make these 0.0 alliance stick with silly Naga's more and more.
Hmm.. correct me if I'm wrong, but Naga's use Hybrid Turrets, which require cap, and, OH GEE! the new 'Geddon likes to Nuet!


correct me if I'm wrong, but a Naga shoots triple as far as Armageddon could Neut with BS V
Shani Mukantagara
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#118 - 2013-04-08 17:36:21 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Shani Mukantagara wrote:
Hmm.. correct me if I'm wrong, but Naga's use Hybrid Turrets, which require cap, and, OH GEE! the new 'Geddon likes to Nuet!


I think you will find the Naga to be a bit too far away for that.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#119 - 2013-04-08 17:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Like a geddon sitting on a gate? You cant jump into it. You cant nano off a gate under 50km heavy neuts.

Sure, a curse gets the same range, but a curse also has like 1/5th-18th the hp of a bs.

The geddon seems incredibly strong against small gangs, while also not bringing much to the table for large gangs.

Edit: Actually, I guess I can see how it could be used to outrange moroses, at least forcing them to swap to rails, which would be useful in whs and other situations where there are mid sized gangs with dreads. Still, it completely ***** all over any cruiser and bc within 44km of it.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-04-08 17:40:45 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
I had and have major concerns about the Apoc's cap and massive HP reduction post-change.

^^^^ once again, this, by lots (again, perhaps it's time to give Tach's some love?)