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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction War Data

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Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#81 - 2013-02-20 15:09:52 UTC
Agreed, that's up to the player to make it happen. As a pvper it is your responsibility to force the other side to fight even if they do not want to. The farmers can not make an impact on my home because we counter them and force them to fight. They DIAF so often in fact they have resorted to defensive plexing in the area for LP. Good times.

X Gallentius wrote:
No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight.

nom nom
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#82 - 2013-02-20 15:16:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Your bleating on the forums to have the game kept pve like you want it. So I bleat to have them make it a pvp game.
No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight.



Then why support timer rollbacks?

Then why credit the increase in pvp witht he changes that happened after inferno?

Did allot of people in eve decide that they all of a sudden wanted to fight, and this change of heart just happened to coincide with the change in mechanics?

Do you see why your objection to making the mechanics promote pvp is ********?
The only things I'm objecting to are
1. You guys polluting every thread with "FW IS A BROKEN MESS!!!111"
2. Your out of proportion whinage w.r.t. a notification system that you only want to implement because you are too lazy to scout your target systems.

Almost every FW player agrees that timer rollbacks are a great idea that should have been implemented 6 months ago, but even if they aren't implemented FW is in a great state right now.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#83 - 2013-02-20 15:51:06 UTC
+1, this very vocal minority turn people off of FW when it's the best it's ever been.
******* irritating tbh.

X Gallentius wrote:

1. You guys polluting every thread with "FW IS A BROKEN MESS!!!111"

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#84 - 2013-02-20 15:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Princess Nexxala wrote:
+1, this very vocal minority turn people off of FW when it's the best it's ever been.
******* irritating tbh.

X Gallentius wrote:

1. You guys polluting every thread with "FW IS A BROKEN MESS!!!111"




I started this thread. The op contains data regarding the most effective plexers.

If you and the other gallente think this is working as intended, and not broken fine. To the extent they tried to make the sov war a pvp mechanic it is indeed a broken mess that no one even cares about.

X Gallentius wrote:


2. Your out of proportion whinage w.r.t. a notification system that you only want to implement because you are too lazy to scout your target systems. .


Its not a matter of lazyness its a matter of time. Its not really "hard work" to roam around for hours in order to get a few fights. If you think that is hard work then I think you are the lazy one. But it is time consuming.

But its not just to make the fighting more frequent. Its so that the sov war is not the joke that it is as proven by the first post of this thread.



X Gallentius wrote:

but even if they aren't implemented FW is in a great state right now.


Ok if thats how you want fw sov then great. I think most people disagree and think fw sov is so broken they stopped caring about it altogether - unless they put an alt there to farm some isk or keep a home system.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#85 - 2013-02-20 15:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
[quote=Cearain]Your bleating on the forums to have the game kept pve like you want it. So I bleat to have them make it a pvp game.
No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight.



Then why support timer rollbacks?

Then why credit the increase in pvp witht he changes that happened after inferno?

Did allot of people in eve decide that they all of a sudden wanted to fight, and this change of heart just happened to coincide with the change in mechanics?

Do you see why your objection to making the mechanics promote pvp is ********?

[quote=X Gallentius]
Almost every FW player agrees that timer rollbacks are a great idea that should have been implemented 6 months ago,...


Why do you want to change the mechanics if you don't think they will change anything? Why do you object when I say I want mechanics that will sov war a pvp game? Or do you only chant the mantra "No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight" for mechanics changes that you personally disagree with?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#86 - 2013-02-20 16:16:52 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I started this thread. The op contains data regarding the most effective plexers.

1. Will you commit to not polluting other threads with your diatribe?
2. They are the most effective farmers. Occupancy warfare isn't all about racking up VP.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#87 - 2013-02-20 16:23:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Why do you want to change the mechanics if you don't think they will change anything? Why do you object when I say I want mechanics that will sov war a pvp game? Or do you only chant the mantra "No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight" for mechanics changes that you personally disagree with?

tl;dr
1. Timer rollbacks good.
2. Notification system is Cearain being lazy.
3. Notification system doesn't force farmers to fight.
4. Whining in every thread about how FW is broken is bad.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#88 - 2013-02-20 16:38:15 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I started this thread. The op contains data regarding the most effective plexers.

1. Will you commit to not polluting other threads with your diatribe?.


I will answer your questions when you start answering mine.

X Gallentius wrote:

2. They are the most effective farmers. Occupancy warfare isn't all about racking up VP.


Actually it is. VP is a measure of how much you have pushed a system toward your sides occupancy.

You can drone on about how you "didn't want those systems anyway" but its still occupancy.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#89 - 2013-02-20 16:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Why do you want to change the mechanics if you don't think they will change anything? Why do you object when I say I want mechanics that will sov war a pvp game? Or do you only chant the mantra "No mechanic can make FW a pvp game if one side chooses to not fight" for mechanics changes that you personally disagree with?

tl;dr
1. Timer rollbacks good.
2. Notification system is Cearain being lazy.
3. Notification system doesn't force farmers to fight.
4. Whining in every thread about how FW is broken is bad.




5) Gallente crying at people, who post facts about how their precious "carebear race medal" was won, is priceless.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#90 - 2013-02-20 17:16:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Actually it is. VP is a measure of how much you have pushed a system toward your sides occupancy.

Actually, it's not the only measure. There may be some guys killing farmers entering their system. Because they are dead, the farmers can't rack up LP numbers. Your figure of merit doesn't measure how much those players do denying the other side VP.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#91 - 2013-02-20 17:19:31 UTC
Cearain wrote:
5) Gallente crying at people, who post facts about how their precious "carebear race medal" was won, is priceless.
Again, you fail at being able to differentiate between backwater systems and populated systems.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#92 - 2013-02-20 17:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
5) Gallente crying at people, who post facts about how their precious "carebear race medal" was won, is priceless.
Again, you fail at being able to differentiate between backwater systems and populated systems.


*Posting of killmails is not allowed* - CCP Eterne

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#93 - 2013-02-20 18:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Actually it is. VP is a measure of how much you have pushed a system toward your sides occupancy.

Actually, it's not the only measure. There may be some guys killing farmers entering their system. Because they are dead, the farmers can't rack up LP numbers. Your figure of merit doesn't measure how much those players do denying the other side VP.



Sure it does. Those who lose ships in pvp and are therefore denied vp for the time they go reship are not getting as much vp as those who avoid pvp. (try saying that 5 times fast)

That is why the people at the top of the list are all carebear alts. The system is set up so you are most efficient at plexing if you avoid combat.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#94 - 2013-02-20 18:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
Sure it does. Those who lose ships in pvp and are therefore denied vp for the time they go reship are not getting as much vp as those who avoid pvp. (try saying that 5 times fast)

That is why the people at the top of the list are all carebear alts. The system is set up so you are most efficient at plexing if you avoid combat.

You were listing the most active LP whores, not necessarily the most effective participants in the occupancy war. And we've already established that yes they are the most effective occupancy "warriors" in the hinterlands (because people don't want to spend their time chasing around alts - we all know where they are, btw, even if you don't). We've also established that they do nothing of consequence in the highly populated systems.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#95 - 2013-02-20 18:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Sure it does. Those who lose ships in pvp and are therefore denied vp for the time they go reship are not getting as much vp as those who avoid pvp. (try saying that 5 times fast)

That is why the people at the top of the list are all carebear alts. The system is set up so you are most efficient at plexing if you avoid combat.

You were listing the most active LP whores, not necessarily the most effective participants in the occupancy war. And we've already established that yes they are the most effective occupancy "warriors" in the hinterlands. We've also established that they do nothing of consequence in the highly populated systems.


No not lp, whores vp gainers. VP is directly related to occupancy. Perhaps you don't know the mechanics and therefore miss the relevance.

Look at the links I provided to a system you listed as one people cared about.

You know its not that easy to kill people who are in stabbed ships. So the fact that there are so many kills means there are quite a few. But again we just need to look at the top vp gainers to see all the stabbed ships.

Here is a batch from yesterday top vp:

*snip*

actually not a bad killboard but not a single kill or death yesterday when he earned the top vp spot! Winning the war with pure pve.

*snip*

edit: this guy actually has a good pvp fit. No complaints with his killboard except no kills or losses the day he won the #4 vp earner spot.

*snip*

If all the plexers had killboards like the last one I wouldn't have much of an issue. Maybe he is not the greatest pvper, but I'm sure was no better than him when I was starting out either. But then again I didn't expect that I would be one of the most valuable people in the war effort the very first day I made any mark on the killboards.

*posting links to killboards is against the rules* - CCP Eterne

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#96 - 2013-02-20 18:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
That's not actually true, it is simple to kill stabbed or cloaky plex farmers. TBH it's actually easier to force them to fight then non stabbed, properly fit farmers. Through campaigning directly against them , not only do you get a metric shitload of kills, you can directly influence where they farm. There is a very good reason why farmers would rather defensive plex their own systems around Nisuwa then attempt to offensive plex Nisuwa or Notoras. DIAF 10 times a day doesn't pay the bills.Blink

Cearain wrote:


You know its not that easy to kill people who are in stabbed ships. So the fact that there are so many kills means there are quite a few. But again we just need to look at the top vp gainers to see all the stabbed ships.




But ofc you and people like you say that's not real pvp and doesn't count. which is fine as it is just straight up prison raping ganks...but then in the same breath you say that the FW system is messed up because it allows for mass farming to occur. Do you get the irony there? If you are not willing to counter a particular tactic, how does that make the system broken?

Kills are up, lowsec population is up, fw enrollment is up. I think FW is doing quite well and we are far better off with the current mechanics then past mechanics.

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#97 - 2013-02-20 19:14:41 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
That's not actually true, it is simple to kill stabbed or cloaky plex farmers. TBH it's actually easier to force them to fight then non stabbed, properly fit farmers. Through campaigning directly against them , not only do you get a metric shitload of kills, you can directly influence where they farm. There is a very good reason why farmers would rather defensive plex their own systems around Nisuwa then attempt to offensive plex Nisuwa or Notoras. DIAF 10 times a day doesn't pay the bills.Blink

Cearain wrote:


You know its not that easy to kill people who are in stabbed ships. So the fact that there are so many kills means there are quite a few. But again we just need to look at the top vp gainers to see all the stabbed ships.






I don't lose my stabbed alt farmers often at all, unless I am afk or get caught in a instalock gate/station camp. I pretty much only do offensive plexing so I fit them a bit better and don't usually go completely afk.

The alts were making very good isk for me if I run them all together. I don't do it much because i don't really need the isk and I hate the multiboxing. But they could definitely pay the bills.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#98 - 2013-02-20 19:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
That's exactly what I expected to hear, try offensive plexing in my systemEvil


Cearain wrote:


I don't lose my stabbed alt farmers often at all, unless I am afk or get caught in a instalock gate/station camp. I pretty much only do offensive plexing so I fit them a bit better and don't usually go completely afk.

The alts were making very good isk for me if I run them all together. I don't do it much because i don't really need the isk and I hate the multiboxing. But they could definitely pay the bills.



Oh and XG you guys are slipping! We are almost 350 kills ahead of you this month. Blink

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#99 - 2013-02-20 19:43:17 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
That's exactly what I expected to hear, try offensive plexing in my systemEvil


Cearain wrote:


I don't lose my stabbed alt farmers often at all, unless I am afk or get caught in a instalock gate/station camp. I pretty much only do offensive plexing so I fit them a bit better and don't usually go completely afk.

The alts were making very good isk for me if I run them all together. I don't do it much because i don't really need the isk and I hate the multiboxing. But they could definitely pay the bills.






Will do. Heydielles right? Twisted

You won't be able to blap my ship with your arty thrasher unless I am afk. Better get the smart bomb bs.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#100 - 2013-02-20 19:46:29 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Oh and XG you guys are slipping! We are almost 350 kills ahead of you this month. Blink

We started out so strong... *sigh* but we're still on pace to break our corp record (last month) on the 20th.