EVE General Discussion

Ok, then build what? What structure is good enough you don't like POS'es, don't like outposts?
then what? A new type of structure? Tell your ideal of what you want don't just try to demean me by saying I get fed from tit and welfare from the state.
I am here to find a solution to present in the ideals and features section instead of running around like Mrs. Cravetts from bewitched worried about everything else.

meanwhile using up all of the slots in Nonni for an entire month costs a grand total of 126,500,000 ISK

install cost is 1,000 ISK and cost per hour is 333 ISK whether you're in Jita or in the most remote part of lowsec or NPC 0.0

Malcanis I agree with you, buff the hell out of outposts make it possible to put as many outpost as any SOV holder wants NP there.

Increased cost, doesn't matter to me, go for it, those cost will go to the guy buying it, and since manufacturing cost is whatever corporation owning said outposts including taxes then 0.0 should be able to produce many times cheaper then hi sec.

But here's the problem when I get a price too high I,
A. Shop around.
B. Buy a BPO / BPC's and build as many as I wish.
Take your choice raising prices only creates poverty and independence not insane profits.

All reinforcing does is let you know when the POS will die, or when to organize a defense if it is important enough.

OK Let's look at this in a slightly different way, maybe instead of messing with High Sec and driving all ship prices through the roof even more (a goddamn recon/HIC now costs as much as a CS 3 years ago).

Rather than jack up manufacturing costs in High Sec maybe there should instead be an improvement to the manufacturing facilities available at POSes and Outposts. Making it cost effective to manufacture ships in null without the market spiraling ever further upwards.

This would be in the interests of both parties since in theory (can't do anything about alliances who set silly costs in their outposts) if high sec costs increase everyone in game ends up worse off. Your goods may now be made in null sec but you will still have paid the cost you don't want to pay now. Instead of making your life better you now have to rat, plex, mine, wh, etc. more to pay for the cost.

Well one would assume the guy building for his alliance could access their outpost. Why should they want to give third parties isk when they can do it in-house?

But seriously manufacturing costs should not be so trivial. Costs should be demand-based.

It is ridiculous that a carrier costs something like 95k ISK to build in an NPC station in lowsec. In the real world, tooling, labor, maintenance, energy and real estate are all expensive and constitute a significant part of the cost of goods. Yet in EVE, what represents the use of another's real estate, equipment and consumption of energy is a pittance.

I mean I dislike real-world comparisons as much as the next guy but building stuff in publicly accessible slots should not be practically free. The cost per hour should be closer to 100k in a system with moderate demand, and much more than that in high-demand systems.

yes I'm sure that the extra 3-5m ISK for a T2 cruiser will utterly bankrupt you

also T1 hulls build in a few hours each, prices of ships are not going to increase substantially

Back when I was in IAC out in 0.0, before the existance of Jump Freighters - heck, even Carriers were quite rare, at least in the worlds in which we moved and Titans even more so... The logistics of moving manufactured items from highsec (and stuff like faction loot back to market) was a major undertaking, we had freighter ops every now and then but we almost exclusively imported T2, things we couldn't make for ourselves because of both the blueprint restrictions and the availability of moongoo.
Our ratting ammunition, our battleships, almost everything we needed on a day to day basis, was built in POS arrays in our own space - most of it by Mercurials Inc. as I recall.
In the time before the establishment of The Distillery (our first Outpost) we lived out of POSs and GSCs and it was a very hard, frontier life. One of the biggest problems with POS refining arrays was that they couldn't handle the reprocessing of modules, which limited our mineral inputs given the danger at that time of mining.
Once we'd established The Distillery (a Minmatar Service outpost) Mercurials Inc. put up large buy orders for minerals, they purchased vast quantities of Tritanium from those who used our facilities and they built the majority of the ships we used to hold our space.
We, in FIRMA, manufactured significantly less (predominantly Ammunition) but we were still able to keep up, to some degree, with the demand for EMP L and Mjolnir Torps.
We held mining ops which didn't focus entirely on Gneiss (we had almost no ABCs and no M at all) but swept belts because doing so netted vast quantities of the low-ends for which we had an insatiable thirst.

It was our own, 0.0 manufacturing, conducted long before we had access to things like Jump Bridge Networks and so forth, which propelled us to control (of a sort) over the whole of Catch.

Imports of vast levels of low-end minerals from Empire (including mineral compression) made larger empires possible but they weren't a necessity originally... Heck, when we moved in there were small corporations who lived in our space (and had done for years) with barely any contact with Empire.

The frontiers of space used to be valuable because they were frontiers, once you build a railroad out to a frontier town it ceases to be a frontier, you can get all the latest stuff from Jita but the value of what you had is lessened.


Consider also that, given a fixed demand, the proportions of minerals required by manufacturing drive the prices - if Noxcium is more valuable than Zydrine or Megacyte then it suggests a shortage of supply. The prices of many of the lowend minerals are significantly higher than the old base price - which suggests that the supply is smaller than the demand from the manufacturing base. I wonder whether, if the perceived costs generated by suicide gankers (less of an issue now), bumpers, can flippers and so forth were lower and the supply of empire generated lowends were to increase significantly... perhaps with Trit at 2 ISK per unit again we might see an increase in the value of that imported Zydrine and Megacyte?

So, break reprocessing by reducing mineral costs?

Because that's the only way to reduce the cost of manufacturing.