These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Can Null not see the potential?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2013-01-20 06:57:28 UTC
Yet again we have some hisec dwelling scrubbie thinking he can fix something he knows nothing about.

hello
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#42 - 2013-01-20 06:58:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw

Hahaha, but it's honest work, rite

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#43 - 2013-01-20 07:00:03 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.
The null sec alliances' logistics teams have enough problems fueling all the POS's dedicated to mining and combining moongoo, the hauling it to Jita for resale, and of course the omnipresent supercap production.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

One of the reasons that null sec leadership is pushing so hard on wiping out high sec industry is that they know their own people won't start null sec industry until high sec industry is wiped out. Necessity is the mother of invention, so to speak, because in this case, null sec industrialists won't touch it unless they are guaranteed over 100M / hour.


On the otherhand all the problems with running a large alliance is what CCP put in place to "balance" the rewards in 0.0 however this is no longer true cause of the many changes in the game and players and it seems these mechanics are outdated/outmoded and should be looked at.

If hi sec industry is taken out of hi and given to null what's the guarantee there will be big profits for those doing it in null, if seller A offers his goods at X price seller B is gonna sell his cheaper to get the sale, same with minerals and again we see this at work.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2013-01-20 07:00:49 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
Yet again we have some hisec dwelling scrubbie thinking he can fix something he knows nothing about.

This is always happening, no one is surprised by now.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#45 - 2013-01-20 07:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Piugattuk wrote:
Cost, I incurred the same costs in hi, no risk....hardly all it takes is for another to come along and war dec to get a cheapo corp off the moon and guess what no more pos, if said cheapo corp wants to fight then they risk their pos.

Make a self sustainable POS just for null where no fuel is required, I'm onboard with that absolutely yes.


No, in HS you manufacture out of Stations. Where one system in the Forge has more station slots available than any Sov Nullsec constellation (and most, if not all, regions).

How much did it cost players to put those slots there, where nobody can cancel your jobs, lock the outputs down from you, or otherwise bother you? Nothing. And it costs 35k isk/hr/slot less than POS manufacturing in Null.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#46 - 2013-01-20 07:13:02 UTC
If life in Null sec is as tough and hard as you lot are making out, and life in high sec is more profitable, easier and such...

Why the hell are you living in null?

Or more seriously seems to me that with JF availability and the range of carriers it would be far more effective to overcome the lack of manufacturing slots, risk of mining low end ores by simply using high sec for that side of things and jf the results to null.

Lest we forget WILL SOMEONE AT CCP GIVE LOW SEC SOME LOVE.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#47 - 2013-01-20 07:13:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Cost, I incurred the same costs in hi, no risk....hardly all it takes is for another to come along and war dec to get a cheapo corp off the moon and guess what no more pos, if said cheapo corp wants to fight then they risk their pos.

Make a self sustainable POS just for null where no fuel is required, I'm onboard with that absolutely yes.


No, in HS you manufacture out of Stations. Where one system in the Forge has more station slots available than any Sov Nullsec constellation (and most, if not all, regions).

How much did it cost players to put those slots there, where nobody can cancel your jobs, lock the outputs down from you, or otherwise bother you? Nothing. And it costs 35k isk/hr/slot less than POS manufacturing in Null.


Sure, manufacturing is done in NPC stations, however have you tried doing copying or research or invention this is near impossible to get a slot without a long line up to months.

You know what makes manufacturing more difficult in hi, competition, competition is the nerf to hi sec industrial toons everybody and their mothers are manufacturing so profits are fleeting and most stuff I sell at a loss because of competition.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#48 - 2013-01-20 07:22:51 UTC
I know I'm a hi sec carebear without a clue of how difficult it is in 0.0 but...ehm, what would stop a mega corp from steamrolling into any low sec system and taking over and shutting down gates?

Then you would have NPC stations to live out of and still plentiful lifestyle and absolutely no costs involved with SOV.

Just wondering why?
Vince Snetterton
#49 - 2013-01-20 07:29:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw


You mean the high sec ice miner making 2 million / hour?
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#50 - 2013-01-20 07:31:51 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw


You mean the high sec ice miner making 2 million / hour?


Yeah another one of my general wtf questions, why do people obsess over mining ice in high sec when the same pilot will make 5-10 times as much isk from the ore in the next belt?

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#51 - 2013-01-20 07:33:44 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Sure, manufacturing is done in NPC stations, however have you tried doing copying or research or invention this is near impossible to get a slot without a long line up to months.

You know what makes manufacturing more difficult in hi, competition, competition is the nerf to hi sec industrial toons everybody and their mothers are manufacturing so profits are fleeting and most stuff I sell at a loss because of competition.


The availability of Copy and Research slots in outposts is even worse than the availability of manufacturing slots.

If you sell anything at a loss when you're manufacturing for a living, you're really terrible at this game.

By the way, Itamo has 550 station manufacturing slots. Find a region in sov Null with more than that. (A fully upgraded factory outpost has 19 slots).

A research outpost has 19 ME/PC/Copy slots to HS's 50 per station. Find a region in Sov null with more than the 480 ME research slots in the Forge. Hell, find a region in sov null that has half of that.

Then keep in mind that each of those Outposts cost ~50 Billion ISK, and you can only have 1 in a system.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#52 - 2013-01-20 07:39:09 UTC
SB Rico wrote:
If life in Null sec is as tough and hard as you lot are making out, and life in high sec is more profitable, easier and such...

Why the hell are you living in null?


I live in null because I was born here. Pod jumped to VFK on my first day. I enjoy the things we do in 0.0 and I dont like all the hoops you gotta jump through to shoot someone in highsec, I dont like gates and stations shooting at me in lowsec you cant use bubbles so it can be difficult to catch people, station games suck, etc.

I ratted for a while as a newbee to make spacemoney but I always thought that PVE in this game was p terrible. Luckily I made enough isk to buy myself a station trader and make billions casually in the free-wheeling markets of The Forge. Our unique brand of space communism replaces any strategic or peacetime ship losses I may have but my alliance needs income to support our lifestyle.

Moon goo is broken, alchemy was a pressure relief valve but alliances in 0.0 need a bottom-up source of income that comes from members living in, and utilizing their space. The current system is high value moons in the north, renters in the south and east. Living in and utilizing space has got to be more than just shooting red crosses, all we want is a little iteration, isnt that the current buzzword?

.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-01-20 07:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw


You mean the high sec ice miner making 2 million / hour?

struggling for a comeback, the npc corp poster starts belting out non sequitor estimations at the hourly value of ice mining
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-01-20 08:03:11 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
You know what makes manufacturing more difficult in hi


As someone who sold my ratting character months ago and went into production in highsec to make my money, the answer to that question is "literally nothing".

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#55 - 2013-01-20 08:04:49 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
You know what makes manufacturing more difficult in hi


As someone who sold my ratting character months ago and went into production in highsec to make my money, the answer to that question is "literally nothing".


I'm occasionally bothered by carpal tunnel syndrome.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#56 - 2013-01-20 08:12:06 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
SB Rico wrote:
If life in Null sec is as tough and hard as you lot are making out, and life in high sec is more profitable, easier and such...

Why the hell are you living in null?


I live in null because I was born here. Pod jumped to VFK on my first day. I enjoy the things we do in 0.0 and I dont like all the hoops you gotta jump through to shoot someone in highsec, I dont like gates and stations shooting at me in lowsec you cant use bubbles so it can be difficult to catch people, station games suck, etc.

I ratted for a while as a newbee to make spacemoney but I always thought that PVE in this game was p terrible. Luckily I made enough isk to buy myself a station trader and make billions casually in the free-wheeling markets of The Forge. Our unique brand of space communism replaces any strategic or peacetime ship losses I may have but my alliance needs income to support our lifestyle.

Moon goo is broken, alchemy was a pressure relief valve but alliances in 0.0 need a bottom-up source of income that comes from members living in, and utilizing their space. The current system is high value moons in the north, renters in the south and east. Living in and utilizing space has got to be more than just shooting red crosses, all we want is a little iteration, isnt that the current buzzword?


Rare thing to say of a goon but I respect your honesty, sir

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#57 - 2013-01-20 08:27:23 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw


You mean the high sec ice miner making 2 million / hour?

struggling for a comeback, the npc corp poster starts belting out non sequitor estimations at the hourly value of ice mining

Lol. Clearly not able to support the effort required to get 90 iceminers multiboxing, is it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#58 - 2013-01-20 08:34:31 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
OP, what you are asking for requires hard work, planning and effort.

Please don't expect them to actually start working on strategies for developing traditional mining and manufacturing, especially if they can't make as much as they would ratting in a null sec anom or belt.

"nullsec alliances don't know about hard work, planning and effort" - some highsec ice miner who makes 3 clicks an hour in his mackinaw


You mean the high sec ice miner making 2 million / hour?

struggling for a comeback, the npc corp poster starts belting out non sequitor estimations at the hourly value of ice mining

Lol. Clearly not able to support the effort required to get 90 iceminers multiboxing, is it.


No but scarily true I stand with my earlier question since having used a maxed ice miner/exhumer pilot last month I discovered Ice made around 2.5-5mil per hour vs 45mil per hour from the ore in the same system... So why do people sit ice belts? It suprises me constantly that ice products are on the market cos there is damn all money in it.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#59 - 2013-01-20 08:35:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Sure, manufacturing is done in NPC stations, however have you tried doing copying or research or invention this is near impossible to get a slot without a long line up to months.

You know what makes manufacturing more difficult in hi, competition, competition is the nerf to hi sec industrial toons everybody and their mothers are manufacturing so profits are fleeting and most stuff I sell at a loss because of competition.


The availability of Copy and Research slots in outposts is even worse than the availability of manufacturing slots.

If you sell anything at a loss when you're manufacturing for a living, you're really terrible at this game.

By the way, Itamo has 550 station manufacturing slots. Find a region in sov Null with more than that. (A fully upgraded factory outpost has 19 slots).

A research outpost has 19 ME/PC/Copy slots to HS's 50 per station. Find a region in Sov null with more than the 480 ME research slots in the Forge. Hell, find a region in sov null that has half of that.

Then keep in mind that each of those Outposts cost ~50 Billion ISK, and you can only have 1 in a system.


Selling at a loss doesn't equate to inability to effectively play, if this is true then every null dweller selling minerals at wal-mart prices is a fail no?
I did a research on building a tengu, cost ~230 mil to build the hull, tell me how I can pick up a hull in Jita at about ~185 mil
If someone isn't taking hits on the chin?

The population of hi is greater then that of null, which brings this full circle, how come null isn't utilizing fully it's moons to manufacture cause even a small POS can support I believe 4 to 5 manufacturing structures each with X number of slots but someone said null indy's won't do it because they want a guarantee of a profit.

Don't want to keep BPO's / BPC's in a POS or an outpost, then have a ship with small secure cargo container with bunch of nick nacks inside too and before logging out go back climb into the ship of choice and log out in a ready safe spot in YOUR system if your not aggroed by some timer then you are safe just like cloaky nuets who harass 0.0 and log out in your system only later to reappear. (And by the way I'm not suggesting to do this with billions in BPO's / BPC's.)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#60 - 2013-01-20 08:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Piugattuk wrote:

The population of hi is greater then that of null, which brings this full circle, how come null isn't utilizing fully it's moons to manufacture cause even a small POS can support I believe 4 to 5 manufacturing structures each with X number of slots but someone said null indy's won't do it because they want a guarantee of a profit.


Because the (nearly) unlimited, safe, (effectively) FREE manufacturing slots in HS are a strictly better option than POSes anywhere for all but certain niches and corner cases.

And no, a small POS cannot support 4-5 manufacturing structures able to manufacture any item in the game (the ability of a HS station), and cannot efficiently build T2 ships at all.

Quote:
Don't want to keep BPO's / BPC's in a POS or an outpost, then have a ship with small secure cargo container with bunch of nick nacks inside too and before logging out go back climb into the ship of choice and log out in a ready safe spot in YOUR system if your not aggroed by some timer then you are safe just like cloaky nuets who harass 0.0 and log out in your system only later to reappear. (And by the way I'm not suggesting to do this with billions in BPO's / BPC's.)


Actually, you are. Most stations in Null are not Gallente Outposts (who, in a shocking twist manage to be better than a HS station in one single way; 36 Office slots), and most systems do not have Outposts. How do you propose to build at a POS in a system where you don't have a station to put an Office in without putting your billions of ISK in BPOs (aka anything more than 2 Battlecruiser BPOs) into the POS?

If your suggestion is to use copies, how do you propose making those copies at a POS in a system where you don't have a station to put an Office in?

Teach me of your magic ability to take BPOs out of the location they're installed in without cancelling the job (and loosing all progress and materials).


Oh, and:
Piugattuk wrote:
Selling at a loss doesn't equate to inability to effectively play, if this is true then every null dweller selling minerals at wal-mart prices is a fail no?
I did a research on building a tengu, cost ~230 mil to build the hull, tell me how I can pick up a hull in Jita at about ~185 mil
If someone isn't taking hits on the chin?


A tengu costs around 150m to build. So you're most certainly doing something wrong.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon