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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#761 - 2013-04-10 23:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Mr Kidd wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.

...

Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.


I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment.

I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none!

What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc.

Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors.

Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them.

wow again with the eve's dying without avatars.


No, he's not saying that at all. But he is pointing out that, Incarna aside, no new content has been added to the game in years. Take ship rebalancing....what's new? Nothing. What's changed? A lot. I'm of the opinion that they're basically taking poor game play that players have made to work, are changing it (for better or worse?) and palming that off as "content" expecting us to have "fun" doing the same thing. It's not. The only reason Incarna is used as an example is it was new content but CCP royally fubared it.

With the ship rebalancing thats being presented as an "expansion" (think about that word), they're basically proliferating cap usage which I think everyone agrees is bad for small scale game play. As for content itself, what is there that's new.....nothing.

If you look at the overall picture very little is being done to the game. Oh sure, they're making lots of small changes that effect a large scope of the game but on the whole, these changes can probably be done in a couple of days work for a few developers changing numbers in a database. But even some of the ship changes don't even make sense so, how much effort are they really putting into Eve?


Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions.

The Tears Must Flow

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#762 - 2013-04-11 02:10:22 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions.


Yes they do.

When's the last time you played in a real sandbox? Yeah, when you were a little kid. There's a reason it stops being stimulating at a certain age and you don't see teenagers jumping in with the toddlers. Content in eve is the equivalent of being given a set of tools. The more tools. The more content we make for ourselves.

Now, whatever it was CCP was going for with avatars, I've no idea. I doubt they know.

Don't ban me, bro!

Flamespar
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
#763 - 2013-04-11 02:12:24 UTC
The last three expansions weren't excellent at all. They were just updates and fixes. Necessary but boring.
Verlaine Glariant
FW Scuad
#764 - 2013-04-11 02:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Verlaine Glariant
I agree that they were excellent expansions but this game needs actual new content. However CCP can't do miracles with its current resources. Remember they fired a lot of employees after Incarna.

· FW: Needs to let players join pirate factions
· Ships: Pirate Factions need one ship on each class (Frigate > Cruiser > Battlecruiser > Battleship) and some of the already present need to be revisited. Pirate Battlecruisers are especially needed.
· Logout to Character selection sreen - This has been asked for YEARS and still not present in the game
· Again Pirate Factions: need new content for the other factions, not only Sansha's Nation, but Guristas, Serpentis, Blood Raiders and Angel Cartel too
· Jove faction: more lore and content about this race
· POS Overhaul - Modular POS needs to be implemented ASAP
· Pirate faction ships: Vindicator, Bhaalgorn, Rattlesnake, Gila and Worm need exclusive hulls, not shared ones.
· Revenant: it's nearly impossible to get one, let alone buy it (last one was bought for nearly 300 billion)
· Incarna: it is a very short demo of what it should be right now. You can... sit on a coach Lol
· Sov system is bad, please fix it
·... and many more. These ones are just to name a few.

And one can dream...
· Ship interiors
· Cockpit view
· Atmospheric flight
· Ship crews
· Complex ships that need to be piloted by two or more players at a time

www.amphysvena.org

CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#765 - 2013-04-11 02:35:37 UTC
This is really awesome...!!!

Please CCP work on this ... make it an awesome feature like most of us want...!!!

Keep giving me reasons to play for ten more years ... XD

I'll keep dreaming with walking in my ships and watching the awesome bridges we imagine they have.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#766 - 2013-04-11 12:58:30 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
(...)
Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions.


So, according to you, POSes could be removed tomorrow as we don't need "content", players will make it themselves, right? Roll
Ghazu
#767 - 2013-04-16 17:44:45 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread
its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Arduemont
The State of War.
#768 - 2013-04-17 13:37:01 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread
its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.


Of course no one is pissed with the lack of "extra pants". You'd need some content and a reason to want them first, and currently there is no meaningful WiS content (Which is what most of us want). Love the fact that you saw that there was no WiS content in there and immediately thought that your time would be best spent coming back here to disappointing people. Your such a wonderful human being.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#769 - 2013-04-18 06:09:21 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
... and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.


You haven't heard me. It's because of the lack of air in space (and behind the door in my CQ).

Also: I'm totally in favour of ships before clothing. I always wanted that Hello Kitty skin for my Kestrel.

On a serious note: CCP won't get around to work on WiS at this time and that's ok. As long as they don't completely forget about us, I'm fine.


Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#770 - 2013-04-18 06:33:41 UTC
CMD Ishikawa wrote:
This is really awesome...!!!

Please CCP work on this ... make it an awesome feature like most of us want...!!!

Keep giving me reasons to play for ten more years ... XD

I'll keep dreaming with walking in my ships and watching the awesome bridges we imagine they have.


Do you really want more dev time to go into Incarna? The player base dropped off so badly last time that CCP go into financial trouble.

I'd say, make corp meeting rooms, a station bar (with a minigame like Poker), possibly integrate eve voice into character avatars, and leave it at that. When you think about it, those relatively small extensions of Incarna would greatly add to the immersion of the game.
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#771 - 2013-04-18 07:13:35 UTC
The vision sounds intriguing, but given that the current Captain quarters are as unresponsive and clunky as they are, I have no confidence that avatar based gameplay can be enjoyable.

I think a statement of this sort would be much more well received, if our characters can at least move within the CQ smoothly, like in other games, first.
Ghazu
#772 - 2013-04-18 07:25:39 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread
its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.


Of course no one is pissed with the lack of "extra pants". You'd need some content and a reason to want them first, and currently there is no meaningful WiS content (Which is what most of us want). Love the fact that you saw that there was no WiS content in there and immediately thought that your time would be best spent coming back here to disappointing people. Your such a wonderful human being.

sad part is that us advocates of meaningful wis cotent are massively outnumbered by the blobs of freaks.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#773 - 2013-04-18 19:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
mechtech wrote:
[..]make corp meeting rooms, a station bar (with a minigame like Poker), possibly integrate eve voice into character avatars[..]
This would keep me happy for at least 5 years. Hell, just the bar would do it for me.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#774 - 2013-04-18 20:20:56 UTC
In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".

By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#775 - 2013-04-18 20:23:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".

By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.



That something will be:

"We currently have no timetable we can share for when we will address avatar-based gameplay".

Otherwise known as: Soon™




There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#776 - 2013-04-18 20:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".

By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.


Jove expats (without access to their technology) as a playable starter race. The lore reason will be that Jove are desperate and think that letting their own mix with other races may trigger new experiences and lead to useful discovery.


PS: can you point the time stamp for that WiS comment? I want to see that chuckle with my own eyes and give a try to reading what it means, if it means anything at all.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#777 - 2013-04-18 22:25:25 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".

By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.


Jove expats (without access to their technology) as a playable starter race. The lore reason will be that Jove are desperate and think that letting their own mix with other races may trigger new experiences and lead to useful discovery.


PS: can you point the time stamp for that WiS comment? I want to see that chuckle with my own eyes and give a try to reading what it means, if it means anything at all.

Not really, I just watched it live. It is the first question in the Q&A segment.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Wheelsleep Snores
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2013-04-19 03:52:43 UTC
If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.

To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#779 - 2013-04-19 05:01:51 UTC
Wheelsleep Snores wrote:
If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.

To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls.


It would actually be fairly easy to instance inside station content. Establishments could be divided into sections, like corp offices, that can be selected when you dock. Each of those would have a max player count and each station would have a max number of establishments.

They have even released a UI improvements trailer at some point (probably about a year ago now) that has images of a UI hinting at the above. I'm afraid I can't find the video at the moment. I'll edit this post later to include a link.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Ghazu
#780 - 2013-04-19 12:33:42 UTC
instanced safe emoting environments?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984