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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#721 - 2013-04-04 18:42:23 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

There were just 2 more posts in a row asking CCP to deliver more dress-up items.


....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason. Kind of a key difference there.
Also, other people can see them from the full body avatar button in the game, if we want to get technical here - other people certainly can see them too.


Anyway, I'll ignore the rest of your very tired trolling.
Ghazu
#722 - 2013-04-04 19:52:00 UTC
so back to making dudes emoting each other jokes if you want to roll like that.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#723 - 2013-04-04 21:38:09 UTC
Thread cleaned slightly, please try to make your points without insulting each other!

Thanks Pirate

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#724 - 2013-04-04 21:52:55 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:

....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.


I find it quite fathomable.

CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons.

We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers.


Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#725 - 2013-04-04 21:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:

....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.


I find it quite fathomable.

CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons.

We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers.


Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface.

There is, unfortunately, some truth in that statement. Releasing them would probably stir things up a bit even now. When CCP does start releasing ANYTHING related to the NEX store they will have to be absolutely certain that they have their ducks in a row or risk another troll manipulated uproar.

I have to say though that I sincerely doubt that out of all the issues that were being used to whip the mob into a frenzy that the price of the clothing was a major factor in subscription loss. If that were true then we have a lot more people secretly yearning for affordable "barbie clothing" than are willing to admit it. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#726 - 2013-04-04 22:16:02 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:

....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.


I find it quite fathomable.

CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons.

We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers.


Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface.



That, and they'd have to support that new (vanity only) content and iterate it should there be any problems.

CCP has enough unfinished content on their plate already that needs iterated.


There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Flamespar
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
#727 - 2013-04-04 22:58:48 UTC
**** shoes. I wanna explore ruins and lock people inside.

Don't forget to ask CCP about the future of avatars on the live stream.

Also, what happened to tattoos?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#728 - 2013-04-05 01:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....


No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around.



No, there was definitely more to it than just being pissed for no reason.

Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.

The NeX was exclusionary. Regardless of people's opinions towards space barbie dolls the fact that most items were over $20 a piece placed the entire avatar experience in jeopardy since many people cannot afford or will not afford to blow +$100 playing dressup. Those price points were absurd. Compound that with indestructible items and it detracts from game play, not enhance it. The overall opinion for those in the two categories mentioned was that their game play was suffering at the expense of features that they couldn't or wouldn't justify. Hence it was exclusionary. A simple solution would have been to make the MT actually micro and the items destructible with auto-buy options. CCP would have been lining the pockets of their $1,000 jeans with cash from that model. And chances are, that even people who didn't care about space barbie would have eventually participated to some extent.

Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.

As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game.

Don't ban me, bro!

Arduemont
The State of War.
#729 - 2013-04-05 05:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Doc Fury wrote:

CCP has enough unfinished content on their plate already that needs iterated.


Those cloths are not "unfinnished". They're completely done, and working, they just don't have a price plan. They were talking about in the CSM minutes (not the last one, the one before that). CCP Reddawn confirms this in one of the threads I linked on the last page. They could probably set up a meeting to agree prices and release them in an hour or so.

I don't even really care about cloths. I want meaningful Avatar content. But, if they're done they should get released if only to show that CCP haven't abandoned another feature.

Mr Kidd wrote:
Irrelevant stuff.


I'll get to this later. I am off to work.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Apricot Baby
caldariprimeponyclub
#730 - 2013-04-05 05:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Apricot Baby
I will just leave these here...

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/cppc_apricots_odyssey.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/eve_character_hello_kitty_jacket.png
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/883966_316194498508205_1209302962_o.jpg

Unreleased Ships (Images) - www.imgur.com/a/uablN Unreleased Ships (Videos) - www.youtube.com/user/TanithAmberdemon Eve Celshader Project - www.imgur.com/a/5mn44

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#731 - 2013-04-05 07:59:18 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....


No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around.

uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq.


then turn the darn thing of, it can't be to difficult for You to set a simple check box.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#732 - 2013-04-05 08:39:24 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:

No, there was definitely more to it than just being pissed for no reason.

Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.

The NeX was exclusionary. Regardless of people's opinions towards space barbie dolls the fact that most items were over $20 a piece placed the entire avatar experience in jeopardy since many people cannot afford or will not afford to blow +$100 playing dressup. Those price points were absurd. Compound that with indestructible items and it detracts from game play, not enhance it. The overall opinion for those in the two categories mentioned was that their game play was suffering at the expense of features that they couldn't or wouldn't justify. Hence it was exclusionary. A simple solution would have been to make the MT actually micro and the items destructible with auto-buy options. CCP would have been lining the pockets of their $1,000 jeans with cash from that model. And chances are, that even people who didn't care about space barbie would have eventually participated to some extent.

Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.

As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game.


Bah, the Forum ate my post X

In the end it all sums up to one thing: Lots of stupid people started whining about Wis for no reason. No reason at all. And WiS was shelved because of that and no other reason.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#733 - 2013-04-05 08:41:30 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
**** shoes. I wanna explore ruins and lock people inside.


That would be awesome Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Flamespar
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
#734 - 2013-04-05 08:41:46 UTC
Just goes to show that CCP could go a long way towards restoring confidence by showing that the Incarna engine can render multiple avatars in real time.
neur0zen
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#735 - 2013-04-05 10:19:27 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay,


www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC0lXTW5g0E

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8


I want to believe !
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#736 - 2013-04-05 12:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Debora Tsung wrote:


Bah, the Forum ate my post X

In the end it all sums up to one thing: Lots of stupid people started whining about Wis for no reason. No reason at all. And WiS was shelved because of that and no other reason.


If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.

Flamespar wrote:
Just goes to show that CCP could go a long way towards restoring confidence by showing that the Incarna engine can render multiple avatars in real time.


That's the real question, isn't it? I'm thinking it could not, not with current consumer GPUs. I mean, think about what is being rendered and how even players with high performance systems were complaining about problems rendering a small room and one avatar. Now, imagine one's system performance rendering expansive environments with hundreds of avatars. There were even rumors that some dev's were asking those same questions, at the time. I'm inclined to believe, barring tinfoil hat stuff, that the rendering engine was a technological dead end because someone screwed up, promised more than could be delivered and there was a lack of oversight eventually leading to a realization that the whole thing needed to be trashed and they needed to start over which they weren't willing to do. Players' dissatisfaction was merely a convenient excuse and a positive PR excuse at that.

Otherwise, there's no reason not to continue it even at levels of development that doesn't cause people to unsub. I think there's more to it but CCP will never give us the whole story.

Don't ban me, bro!

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#737 - 2013-04-05 12:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Mr Kidd wrote:

If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.


If You honestly believe that declining subscriber numbers are not reason enough for CCP to shelf a project and concentrate on another to regain what they lost, then by all means do so. I choose to stay sane.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Roisin Connor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#738 - 2013-04-05 12:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Roisin Connor
Please, please, please hurry this up!

Another year of development on this is not acceptable. If it can't make it in this Odyssey expansion then the winter one will do.

Why is this not using the same engine as the other avatar stuff though?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#739 - 2013-04-05 13:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:

If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.


If You honestly believe that declining subscriber numbers are not reason enough for CCP to shelf a project and concentrate on another to regain what they lost, then by all means do so. I chose to stay sane.


People were unsubing for a number of reasons. WiS was only part of the issues at the time.

WiS and NeX were being developed at the expense of the game itself...remember the 18mos doctrine that CCP used to develop the two almost exclusively? Yeah, that pissed a lot of people off. There's no way CCP didn't know it was going to cause problems. If Blizzard tried the same thing and said, "Hey, we're going to develop space ships for in game but, um, we're not going to develop any new expansions" do you think people are going to be pissed off because Blizzard was developing space ships or because Blizzard was doing it at the main game play's expense?

WiS was forced on everyone....CCP addressed those issues. CCP implemented a checkbox, do not load station environment, and then re--introduced ship spinning. This allowed those who didn't want it to never have to participate thereby compartmentalizing WiS from the rest of the game. So, at that point what else was there that so many people were complaining about?

Well, there was the Fear memo discussing P2W. CCP did nothing to alleviate those fears except to abandon NeX, yet it's still in game and that ugly head can be reared at any time.

People were not unsubbing because of WiS alone, but instead CCP's abandonment of the game people were actually paying to play. CCP also addressed this issue by re-allocating development resources.

AFAIK, WoD is still being developed. And, AFAIK, WoD is still an avatar-centric game. WiS development and WoD development at that time was done hand in hand. If memory serves, WiS was directly dependent on WoD development. The only thing CCP abandoned was WiS. So, it does make me question whether WiS and NeX weren't just an alpha for WoD with CCP having no intentions of fully realizing WiS in Eve. The 18mos doctrine leads me to wonder if the entire thing wasn't being developed to meet some deadline,a demonstration of technology, to secure licensing, funding, whatever. Sure, you can say it's tinfoil hat stuff, maybe it is. IDK.

What CCP did was the equivalent of constructing a building for business and because the people across the street didn't like it, decide to just write off that investment. That just doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, if CCP were merely trying to demonstrate that it could construct a basic building with certain features working under a certain deadline in order to acquire more business in the future....the abandonment makes a lot more sense.

Don't ban me, bro!

Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
#740 - 2013-04-05 18:17:00 UTC
Quote:
Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.


They removed the hangars, but they have shown them i all the demos, that was unforgivable, because people should have the liberty to choose.

It was a day when the forum post became sentient