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Amarr Under powerd???
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#81 - 2012-09-07 17:35:59 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Or take the Omen: good laser boat


Uhhhhh, I wouldn't say that...... ever.....

Quote:
This is ultimately the problem with the Amarr lineup: lots of good ships, but none are really "best in class" for their role.


Nah there's lots of best in class for their role. Slicer, Executioner (perhaps tied with the Condor?), Coercer, Bait Maller, Oracle, Curse, all battleships, all caps, all supercaps...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#82 - 2012-09-07 17:50:25 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
Or take the Omen: good laser boat


Uhhhhh, I wouldn't say that...... ever.....

-Liang


I'm sure he just forgot to put an "N" in front of that.... right?
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-09-08 19:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Greywolf
Gitanmaxx wrote:


I think it's because the ships you listed for amarr are niche ships. A lot of people play amarr wanting heavy armor and laser beams of death. When you look at the ships of that basic Ammarian doctrine is when things look greener everywhere else. you grudgingly semi included harbinger, agreed its not bad the others are just better. But in pvp the most used ship class seems to be BC, or cruisers for poor folks which is what all races get compared by, right or wrong.

Sum it up, amarr has awesome ships. But a race is judged usually by its vanilla ships which aren't the ones anyone raves about when talking about amarr.


This is a good point and one that is hard to realize until you think about it. As many in this thread have pointed out, there are a fair amount of good specialized ships in the Amarr line. However, the main problem I see with Amarr ships (and what I think the above quoted post is saying) is that none of these are what you expect from Amarr, that is, a hard hitting, heavily armored laser boat.

Curse/pilgrim - neut/td/drone boats with meh tank (depending on fit).

Zealot - sniper boat with no tank.

Navy Omen/Slicer - similar to zealot. I understand Navy Omen can be fit for a closer range brawler though too.

Arbitrator - baby curse.

Take a look at those ships. They are not heavily tanked, laser boats. In fact, funny enough, they are the opposite in many cases. This makes you understand why they are the chosen small-gang/solo pvp Amarr ships - because they are nothing like the "standard" Amarr doctrine line up is!

The only ships I think you can add for "true" Amarr type ships that exceed at solo/small gang pvp are the new Punisher and the Harby. And even the Harby is a stretch as many have pointed out. It needs a bit more powergrid and a bit less mass to be honest.

Now, comparatively, looking at Minmatar and Gallente races you can easily find multiple ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually follow their racial doctrine: talos, tornado, rifter, incursus, hurricane (now cyclone too, due to the ASB), myrm, brutix, tornado, phoon, dominix, vexor, stabber fleet issue, loki, proteus (legion needs a 6th laser turret!). Looking at these ships it's clear they follow their racial doctrines (minmatar being fast and in your face + neuts, or long range with speed - or gallente rush you and blast your face or drone you to death).
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#84 - 2012-09-08 19:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
If you want to say that sitting still and raining God's Punishment down upon the heathens is Amarr's "doctrine", then I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the Cyclone and Sleipnir are operating in the Minmatar kite only racial niche when ASB fit. You'd have a lot more trouble saying that the small gang Talos is operating in Gallente role as well.

Basically: you're hung up on how you perceive Amarr to be fit and flown.

-Liang

Ed: Seriously, your post reads to me like this: "The Amarr niche is to sit still and do mediocre damage almost wholly mitigated by terrible tracking and terrible damage types, while the Minmatar role is to speed all over the battlefield doing awesome damage with awesome damage types and when you finally pin them down they tank 100x better than Amarr!!!"

Straight

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-09-08 19:29:55 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
If you want to say that sitting still and raining God's Punishment down upon the heathens is Amarr's "doctrine", then I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the Cyclone and Sleipnir are operating in the Minmatar kite only racial niche when ASB fit. You'd have a lot more trouble saying that the small gang Talos is operating in Gallente role as well.

Basically: you're hung up on how you perceive Amarr to be fit and flown.

-Liang


In my haste of posting examples, I forgot that Talos right now is mainly used for longer range in smaller scrimmages. And your right, an ASB tanked Cyclone isn't using it's speed to determine it's engagement (still decently fast and will still be useful at some point). But the fact remains that the Cyclone and Sleipnir are using projectile turrets with a mix of speed during engagements.

As far as being hung up on how I perceive Amarr to be - well one thing is true - I'd like there to be options for Amarr ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually use lasers and tank and not speed and range. My point is that why train lasers, armor tank, and Amarr ships to only use the very few specialized ships in the racial line that don't rely on those skills. In that case, I'd just rather prefer Minmatar and Gallente. You have to admit that it's a bit odd.
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-09-08 19:30:55 UTC
Arya Greywolf wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
If you want to say that sitting still and raining God's Punishment down upon the heathens is Amarr's "doctrine", then I think you'd be hard pressed to say that the Cyclone and Sleipnir are operating in the Minmatar kite only racial niche when ASB fit. You'd have a lot more trouble saying that the small gang Talos is operating in Gallente role as well.

Basically: you're hung up on how you perceive Amarr to be fit and flown.

-Liang


In my haste of posting examples, I forgot that Talos right now is mainly used for longer range in smaller scrimmages. And your right, an ASB tanked Cyclone isn't using it's speed to determine it's engagement (still decently fast and will still be useful at some point). But the fact remains that the Cyclone and Sleipnir are using projectile turrets with a mix of speed during engagements and are not relying on target painting or webbing to fight.

As far as being hung up on how I perceive Amarr to be - well one thing is true - I'd like there to be options for Amarr ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually use lasers and tank and not speed and range. My point is that why train lasers, armor tank, and Amarr ships to only use the very few specialized ships in the racial line that don't rely on those skills. In that case, I'd just rather prefer Minmatar and Gallente. You have to admit that it's a bit odd.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#87 - 2012-09-08 19:39:09 UTC
Arya Greywolf wrote:

As far as being hung up on how I perceive Amarr to be - well one thing is true - I'd like there to be options for Amarr ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually use lasers and tank and not speed and range. My point is that why train lasers, armor tank, and Amarr ships to only use the very few specialized ships in the racial line that don't rely on those skills. In that case, I'd just rather prefer Minmatar and Gallente. You have to admit that it's a bit odd.


If you're wanting to use lasers and tank to win in small gangs, then there is nothing wrong with the NOmen, Prophecy, Zealot, and Absolution. But you must be prepared for when the enemy turns your "small gang PVP" into "small gang vs massive blob PVP".

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#88 - 2012-09-08 21:16:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Arya Greywolf wrote:

As far as being hung up on how I perceive Amarr to be - well one thing is true - I'd like there to be options for Amarr ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually use lasers and tank and not speed and range. My point is that why train lasers, armor tank, and Amarr ships to only use the very few specialized ships in the racial line that don't rely on those skills. In that case, I'd just rather prefer Minmatar and Gallente. You have to admit that it's a bit odd.


If you're wanting to use lasers and tank to win in small gangs, then there is nothing wrong with the NOmen, Prophecy, Zealot, and Absolution. But you must be prepared for when the enemy turns your "small gang PVP" into "small gang vs massive blob PVP".

-Liang



I kind of agree with Arya in that there are not a lot Amarr ships that go well in their doctrine atm in PvP (yeah, I see them as Raining God's fury down on heathens while Well tanked (good tank, good dps, not so fast, but not sitting still)). However, I am keeping faith that CCP is addressing that in the ship passes (already love what they did for frigates)

The ships you listed I agree with and are iconic to me of how I picture Amarr doctrine, however..

Prophecy - (currently anyway) I see more people with blasters and ACs than I do with lasers the very few times I have seen this ship in pvp so far, namely due to no bonus on the lasers and higher cap use. Cry

NOmen - Nothing to say, great ship. I just wish the Omen itself was in its place as the 'norm'

Zealot - I haven't truly commited mine in PVP yet, but the dual rep AB fit has been a ton of fun and effective to-hull experimenting with friends. Devastating weakness to neuts though if they get close.

Absolution - Absolutely amazing tank, and is admittedly one of my favorite ships in the game at the moment, but it also is a Command ship, and far from an inexpensive ship to fly out there in pvp.

Harbinger - with a couple of minor tweaks, is almost the poster child of what I picture on an Amarr recruitment poster.

All of the BS - again, not much to say, they fit the doctrine well.

I am waiting to see how / what CCP does with the tierecide on Cruisers +, and praying to every pagan god that they do something about lasers other than cap bonus to promote the use of them on all non-missile based Amarr ships.

Regardless, I will never stop flying my big bad gold~ er... Bronze strobe lights of doom. Big smile

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#89 - 2012-09-09 00:53:33 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:

I kind of agree with Arya in that there are not a lot Amarr ships that go well in their doctrine atm in PvP (yeah, I see them as Raining God's fury down on heathens while Well tanked (good tank, good dps, not so fast, but not sitting still)). However, I am keeping faith that CCP is addressing that in the ship passes (already love what they did for frigates)


There is nothing that CCP can ever do to fix the "sit at zero and pew pew" philosophy's weakness in small gang combat. That weakness doesn't derive from ship balance, but from vulnerability to additional ships.

Your list of ships is interesting, but only in the sense that CCP has promised that those ships are being fixed with tierification. The Omen, Maller, and Prophecy are specifically promised to be fixed, while I suspect the Harbinger will stay the same while its peers are nerfed.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#90 - 2012-09-09 01:56:29 UTC
all hail gallente \o/
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#91 - 2012-09-09 02:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
Liang Nuren wrote:

There is nothing that CCP can ever do to fix the "sit at zero and pew pew" philosophy's weakness in small gang combat. That weakness doesn't derive from ship balance, but from vulnerability to additional ships.

Your list of ships is interesting, but only in the sense that CCP has promised that those ships are being fixed with tierification. The Omen, Maller, and Prophecy are specifically promised to be fixed, while I suspect the Harbinger will stay the same while its peers are nerfed.

-Liang



I was not saying 'sit at zero and pew pew', that would be more of a Gallente blaster philosophy. I do picture the Amarr as tougher but slower (they are currently hurting in active tanking pvp in particular but that is a different thread) defensively, but in no way do I see them as big slow snails that want to stand still and fire at something till one or the other pops. They should move, and it should matter. I just do not see them as fast as say, Minmitar, who I see as (supposedly) more fragile yet faster and harder to hit. I am not sure if that is the way you are perceiving the comments, or I did not make myself clear enough. Sorry if there was any miscommunication on my part.


I did not see / must have missed the notes on them mentioning the Omen / Maller / Proph. That news makes me happy as hell. I will be very interested to see how things turn out for each of the hull classes and tiers as they adjust. As it stands at the moment, I have been practicing with friends more, but actively pvping less due to the proliferation of ASB's I've been encountering ( I fly mostly armor). So I will take a little more of a sit back and observe stance for now.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#92 - 2012-09-09 03:39:07 UTC
The thing about it is that Amarr armor is never going to be popular as long as it can't adequately deal with the PVP situation going from "small gang vs small gang" to "small gang vs large gang". The only way to deal with that is being blatantly OP, having superior mobility (to leave), or evening the numbers up. Fat and slow ships (of any race) are always going to be considered inferior in small gangs for that express reason.

So while you may not be saying "sit absolutely still", you seem to be saying that fat slow Amarr armor ships should be equally powerful in small gang combat as fast/agile Minmatar/Gallente ships. And that's what I'm drawing exception to. The ships I've listed as being good in small gang combat are fast enough and ideally have an optimal bonus to mitigate tackle risk and damage. That is to say, I believe that Amarr should (and does) have fast enough laser ships to participate successfully in both solo and small gang warfare.

As to the upcoming boosts: yeah I'm super excited. From what I've been able to glean from dev posts and the CSM minutes:
- The Omen is getting slots and fittings.
- The Maller is getting a damage bonus to become a mini Abaddon
- The Prophecy is getting a drone damage bonus
- Cruisers as a whole are going to be faster and perhaps longer ranged
- BCs as a whole are going to be coming up to "low" Tier 2 BC standards (eg, the Myrm and Binger are "fine" but the Cane and Drake will eat a nerf).
- Tier 3s are getting smacked in the face with regards to sig and speed
- T3s are getting smacked in the face on the whole
- Both Field and Fleet Command Ships are getting boosted
- Gang links are probably being brought on grid
- HML are likely to eat a nerf
- Armor rig penalties are likely to change
- ASBs are going to eat a nerf

Most of this will happen after the Winter expansion. I think we're only going to see the frigates and maybe the beginning of T2 frigate Tierification for Winter.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#93 - 2012-09-09 04:53:55 UTC
Lets look at Autocannons and see why they're good.


Autocannons has vastly majority of its range in falloff, which means that ammo optimal range penalty means almost nothing to Autocannons.

There is no reason you shouldn't be using short range high damage ammo all the time, the range increase of long range weak ammo is never used on autocannons. Mid range ammo give up to a 20% tracking bonus.

Autocannon has barrage as a counterpart to Scorch.

Autocannons with short range ammo has more effective range than Pulse lasers with short range ammo.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#94 - 2012-09-09 07:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
Liang Nuren wrote:
The thing about it is that Amarr armor is never going to be popular as long as it can't adequately deal with the PVP situation going from "small gang vs small gang" to "small gang vs large gang". The only way to deal with that is being blatantly OP, having superior mobility (to leave), or evening the numbers up. Fat and slow ships (of any race) are always going to be considered inferior in small gangs for that express reason.

So while you may not be saying "sit absolutely still", you seem to be saying that fat slow Amarr armor ships should be equally powerful in small gang combat as fast/agile Minmatar/Gallente ships. And that's what I'm drawing exception to. The ships I've listed as being good in small gang combat are fast enough and ideally have an optimal bonus to mitigate tackle risk and damage. That is to say, I believe that Amarr should (and does) have fast enough laser ships to participate successfully in both solo and small gang warfare.

As to the upcoming boosts: yeah I'm super excited. From what I've been able to glean from dev posts and the CSM minutes:
- The Omen is getting slots and fittings.
- The Maller is getting a damage bonus to become a mini Abaddon
- The Prophecy is getting a drone damage bonus
- Cruisers as a whole are going to be faster and perhaps longer ranged
- BCs as a whole are going to be coming up to "low" Tier 2 BC standards (eg, the Myrm and Binger are "fine" but the Cane and Drake will eat a nerf).
- Tier 3s are getting smacked in the face with regards to sig and speed
- T3s are getting smacked in the face on the whole
- Both Field and Fleet Command Ships are getting boosted
- Gang links are probably being brought on grid
- HML are likely to eat a nerf
- Armor rig penalties are likely to change
- ASBs are going to eat a nerf

Most of this will happen after the Winter expansion. I think we're only going to see the frigates and maybe the beginning of T2 frigate Tierification for Winter.

-Liang


If by slower ships being equally powerful in small gang combat, you mean viable, then yes. I do mean to say that. They do partially well due to some advantages (scorch having such a sweet spot range, and 1 sec crystal changes for examples), but not as well as others (my above referenced active tanking problem). They do not have to do it in the same way, there are different approaches that can be applied I am sure.

As to the changes coming up, that is pure /Joygasm. I do hope they change up the Legion a little bit, as it still feels at the bottom of the T3 food chain as it stands. But love to hear the rest of it, in particular the change to Command ships (Damnation is a personal favorite of mine, even though its missile rather than laser. Prophecy as a drone boat? Strange, and I hope it operates differently from the Curse / Arby, but sounds intriguing). And the Gang Link - On grid ... between that and doing something about ASB's, I will be back out and pvping again (I fly unboosted unless a friendly happens to have one, and in armor ships most of the time).

I don't expect anything quickly, as that is simply asking for frustration. CCP does not do things fast, but as I have gotten older (and gods help me, had children), I have become much more patient. Roll

~Zyella


Edit: After re reading, it seems we are saying similar things with regards to Amarr but from different angles, so I'll just stop rambling there.

Do you happen to have any links to the above referenced ship future changes? If not no worries, but if you have them lying around, it would save me much hunting.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#95 - 2012-09-09 07:30:36 UTC
Not really, but you'll want to check the Features and Ideas forum for all the frigate threads and the CSM minutes.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Arya Greywolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-09-09 15:10:28 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

- The Omen is getting slots and fittings.
-Liang


Ohhh, that should be fun. Hopefully it gets some more PG as well :)
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2012-09-09 15:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
Arya Greywolf wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:


I think it's because the ships you listed for amarr are niche ships. A lot of people play amarr wanting heavy armor and laser beams of death. When you look at the ships of that basic Ammarian doctrine is when things look greener everywhere else. you grudgingly semi included harbinger, agreed its not bad the others are just better. But in pvp the most used ship class seems to be BC, or cruisers for poor folks which is what all races get compared by, right or wrong.

Sum it up, amarr has awesome ships. But a race is judged usually by its vanilla ships which aren't the ones anyone raves about when talking about amarr.


This is a good point and one that is hard to realize until you think about it. As many in this thread have pointed out, there are a fair amount of good specialized ships in the Amarr line. However, the main problem I see with Amarr ships (and what I think the above quoted post is saying) is that none of these are what you expect from Amarr, that is, a hard hitting, heavily armored laser boat.

Curse/pilgrim - neut/td/drone boats with meh tank (depending on fit).

Zealot - sniper boat with no tank.

Navy Omen/Slicer - similar to zealot. I understand Navy Omen can be fit for a closer range brawler though too.

Arbitrator - baby curse.

Take a look at those ships. They are not heavily tanked, laser boats. In fact, funny enough, they are the opposite in many cases. This makes you understand why they are the chosen small-gang/solo pvp Amarr ships - because they are nothing like the "standard" Amarr doctrine line up is!

The only ships I think you can add for "true" Amarr type ships that exceed at solo/small gang pvp are the new Punisher and the Harby. And even the Harby is a stretch as many have pointed out. It needs a bit more powergrid and a bit less mass too be honest.

Now, comparatively, looking at Minmatar and Gallente races you can easily find multiple ships that exceed at small gang/solo pvp that actually follow their racial doctrine: talos, tornado, rifter, incursus, hurricane (now cyclone too, due to the ASB), myrm, brutix, tornado, phoon, dominix, vexor, stabber fleet issue, loki, proteus (legion needs a 6th laser turret!). Looking at these ships it's clear they follow their racial doctrines (minmatar being fast and in your face + neuts, or long range with speed - or gallente rush you and blast your face or drone you to death).


Thank you. I think this argument gets diverted into "amarr good! Amarr bad!" when in reality it's that the awesome amarr ships are awkwardly unammarian.
At least for myself I chose amarr and trained armor and lasers for millions of sp...... Then instead I find myself flying a shield tanked drone boat arbitrator with no lasers because its so much more viable of a ship.
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#98 - 2012-09-10 04:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Korgan Nailo
I've read most of the posts, but not everything entirely, so, if I'm missing someone's comments on this, I'm sorry.

As a mission runner, and please spare me the whole "you suck carebear of hell" stuff, here are my thoughts:


- Armor tanking is a problem for missioning.
Between the faction Inv. Fields and the X-Large shield boosters, I could not make any armor tanked fit that would be as good as a shield tanked fit.

The Reactive Armor Hardener is a good step towards making armor tanking better, but alone, without an X-Large armor booster lets say, it still can't compete.


- Lasers consume way too much capacitor
Which is really bad for low SP characters.

When I recently took a look about battleships, and I don't know if the same can be said about other hull classes, every battleship but the Abaddon has a cap boost for Lasers, either by lowering the cap consumption or by having +100% damage and using half the turrets. Quite frankly, I would rather see Lasers consuming less capacitor and see those bonuses lowered. For example:
Today:
- -10% capacitor usage per level
Suggestion:
- -5% capacitor usage per level
- Lasers consume less capacitor overall

Just an idea. CCP can work the math if they find this interesting (or ever read it).


- Angel cartel is a pain in the butt
Of all rats, it is the most disgraceful one to fight against. Why not lower switch EM and Thermal resistances on them? Granted Gallente would take a small penalty, but it would means a LOT of improvement for Amarr ships.


- Machariel Speed? What is the catch?
That is something that makes me laugh. That freaking BS can fly at about 600 m/s with an AB, while all other battleships would be about 300 m/s. What is the catch that it can fly twice as fast? And that is without rigs penalties.


- Bottom Line:
Overall, even though I fought bravely that I wanted to mission in Amarr ships, which I just love the looks, I ended up with a pirate (Nightmare) ship, and thinking that as soon as I remap for Per/Wil again, I'll get Projectiles / Minmatar / Machariel going.

While I was struggling to get an Abaddon going, a friend of mine was just fine in an unrigged Maelstrom and a T2 X-Large shield repairer.

One can not but to be aware of the power of that for missioning.


Just a few thoughts.

--== EvE Online Quick Reference Sheet: E-Uni Forums Link / EvE Forums Link ==--
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#99 - 2012-09-10 05:17:42 UTC
Yes, Angel and Guristas are ******* terrible to fight with lasers. No argument. Fortunately, you can cross train if you don't like it - and then you have the bonus of being able to use the Right Ship For The Right Job. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#100 - 2012-09-10 06:06:48 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:


...Just a few thoughts.



First off CCP will (and should) never balance ships around PVE. Ships are balanced around PvP, as they should be.

Second, no race performs well running level 4 missions with low skills, caldari is probably best because of the 'never miss' feature of missiles. Yes the raven lost some of it's luster with the missile nerf a few years ago, but it still works. As far as shield tanking goes, yes using an XL booster allows you to fit a very large tank, but as you're skills get better, you'll find tanking isn't as important as DPS in missions. The DPS of lasers is amazing, especially having Tach's with faction MF hitting past 40k in optimal, (using faction crystals makes sence in PvE since they last so long).

Yes, the Mach is fast and has good damage projection, but the nightmare has much better damage projection and nobody complains about using that in missions. It's a great ship. There is nothing wrong with the paladin either, it can fit pulse or beams, ab or MWD fairly easily, it even has the mids to fit ECCM when you run against guristas, no such luck w/the Golem and the Vargur.

While lasers have trouble against angels and (to an extent) guristas, they shred Bloods, Sansha, Drones, mercs, and Serps. Sounds like they are ok to me.

As far as lower cap use, no. Remember what I said above, ship balance is based on PvP. Lasers are a great weapon platform, I hardly want to see them on every ship I face.

Lastly, the abaddon isn't a great mission ship. It's either a great damage or great tank ship and works very well in PvP. You'd probably enjoy a pulse apoc far more (and yes, you can use scorch since it lasts a very long time).

Amarr has some of the best ships in the game, the geddon is far and away my favorite PvP battleship. Of course it's not a solo ship, but in small gangs, it brings a world of hurt very quickly, I've been high damage dealer more often than not when flying that ship. The curse, pilgrim, absolution, harb, zealot, sac, crusader, devoter, apoc, and abaddon are all fine ships (and I've been known to use them all) even the purifer (though it needs a bit more cpu).

One final bit, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the street, but until you fly them, you really don't know how good or bad a ship (or race of ships) is.