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Possibly too far with balancing Incursions?

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Gudda
Malakim Zealots
Angel Cartel
#241 - 2012-04-27 20:53:34 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

.

first reasonable post, I ran VG before while looking for a wh corp.

60-70m/hr seem a reasonable payout for HS VG but for AS and HQ, haven't ran them so I dont know much

I guess it would take much more effort but remember, it's still HS. the payout you propose for AS and HQ will once again make incursion the safest/best isk-wise pve activity and make all other form of pve obsolete even C5,C6.



Apolyon I > I make 1b in 1h
Apolyon I > 350m in 5'
Gudda > how do you do that?
Apolyon I > I dont see it's boring
Gudda > gas mining?
Apolyon I > that's the difference between you and me
Gudda > so you make 1 billion in an hour
Gudda > and you are mad at somone making 1 billion in a day
Gudda > ?
Apolyon I > yep, I'm that *******

nerf wormholes?
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#242 - 2012-04-27 21:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Apolyon I
Gudda wrote:
Apolyon I wrote:
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

.

first reasonable post, I ran VG before while looking for a wh corp.

60-70m/hr seem a reasonable payout for HS VG but for AS and HQ, haven't ran them so I dont know much

I guess it would take much more effort but remember, it's still HS. the payout you propose for AS and HQ will once again make incursion the safest/best isk-wise pve activity and make all other form of pve obsolete even C5,C6.



Apolyon I > I make 1b in 1h
Apolyon I > 350m in 5'
Gudda > how do you do that?
Apolyon I > I dont see it's boring
Gudda > gas mining?
Apolyon I > that's the difference between you and me
Gudda > so you make 1 billion in an hour
Gudda > and you are mad at somone making 1 billion in a day
Gudda > ?
Apolyon I > yep, I'm that *******

nerf wormholes?


don't you know resource in wh are limited not non-stop farming like incursion??

ignorance is bliss
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#243 - 2012-04-27 23:46:42 UTC
Really?

Never heard of static chain collapsing?

Not comparing whs to incursions but as far as limitedness goes both are theoretically unlimited given some circumstances.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#244 - 2012-04-28 00:53:31 UTC
Aww, that's cute. You abuse the fact that Incursions are easy isk, then you ***** that CCP nerfs the Vanguard. Man up and move to 0.0 where you can make 60m/hr, every day

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#245 - 2012-04-28 03:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
It's not just the fact that they nerfed vanguards that's the problem. They nerfed HQs as well (apparently by accident?) and didn't really "fix" assaults, which was one of the main goals to begin with...

thhief ghabmoef
Hrontore BOA
State War Academy
Caldari State
#246 - 2012-04-28 03:58:38 UTC
I find the changes made to incursions to be counter productive. I no longer find it to be either enjoyable or profitable to do now that the changes made have greatly reduced the VG population.

The reduction to the VG population and the change to the influence bar has made head quarter sites to be more dangerous and time consuming without increasing payout.

We are unable to break the influence without vanguards, and now that it's this dangerous HQ fleets are even more difficult to form and keep up. Actually impossible.

I flew one site today, heavy with logi's, it was slow, tedious, and not at all the experience I'd like to bring other people into. The influence bar needs to be reworked.

VG's still need balancing.

HeadQuarters still need a isk buff.

Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#247 - 2012-04-28 04:57:19 UTC
Hrontore BOA wrote:
I find the changes made to incursions to be counter productive. I no longer find it to be either enjoyable or profitable to do now that the changes made have greatly reduced the VG population.

The reduction to the VG population and the change to the influence bar has made head quarter sites to be more dangerous and time consuming without increasing payout.

We are unable to break the influence without vanguards, and now that it's this dangerous HQ fleets are even more difficult to form and keep up. Actually impossible.

I flew one site today, heavy with logi's, it was slow, tedious, and not at all the experience I'd like to bring other people into. The influence bar needs to be reworked.

VG's still need balancing.

HeadQuarters still need a isk buff.



tl;dr Incursions are hard, I don't want them to be hard, I just want them to print isk for me.

Please fix ccp.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#248 - 2012-04-28 05:32:15 UTC
Liliana Rahl wrote:
Hrontore BOA wrote:
I find the changes made to incursions to be counter productive. I no longer find it to be either enjoyable or profitable to do now that the changes made have greatly reduced the VG population.

The reduction to the VG population and the change to the influence bar has made head quarter sites to be more dangerous and time consuming without increasing payout.

We are unable to break the influence without vanguards, and now that it's this dangerous HQ fleets are even more difficult to form and keep up. Actually impossible.

I flew one site today, heavy with logi's, it was slow, tedious, and not at all the experience I'd like to bring other people into. The influence bar needs to be reworked.

VG's still need balancing.

HeadQuarters still need a isk buff.



tl;dr Incursions are hard, I don't want them to be hard, I just want them to print isk for me.

Please fix ccp.

Not at all. Nobody minds them being hard, to an extent. It's just that as he said, HQs are even harder to keep together now, and they now have the lowest payout and the most difficulty, both in actually running the sites and in keeping the fleet together. I don't know if you've ever run a TCRC before, but it's the most difficult pve experience in eve, bar none. When preloaded, cruiser hulls can pop before the logis can even get a lock on them. That level of difficulty for, as of now, less pay than L4s.....not very appealing to many.

thhief ghabmoef
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#249 - 2012-04-28 10:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Krystyn
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
really, I think blitz fleets will still be possible for the Vanguard sites. They may never be as profitable again.

But it may just mean that they are more exact in what they have in fleet.

Our group (mixed BS and cruisers) were alone in a VG system. And then an ISD player came along in a polaris frigate. Saying he was a reporter and thought it interesting that our group was the first one he'd seen doing OTA sites in the whole constellation.

"only one's brave enough" - his exact words.


I just finished running OTA sites...well rather 2 OTA sites in 2 hours. We immediately bounced to the NCOs as soon as they spawned is a faction battleship heavy fleet mind you. The new OTAs are totally broken. The recent Caldari incursion site had empty vanguard systems once it was only OTAs left. I thought wow lets get a fleet and clean these babies out. The change(nerf) can't have made them that bad. I was wrong. Now you have to kill everything and hack a can that jumps around over 100km between waves. It was impossible to kill the mara paleo without a hacker to disrupt the sansha reppers. 7 faction battleships and a tengu couldn't get the mara below 50% shields unless we hacked. The hack can is a long ways out and jumps around. I totally understand the OTA blitz fleets were getting through too quickly 120 mil isk in an hour is a bit much for almost no risk, but 20 mil an hour for a bit more risk now just isn't worth my time.

The NCOs took a bit longer as you had to wipe everything out and there were a few cruisers added. So I liked how NCOs were changed up. The legion fleets can still blow through them pretty quickly, but nothing like before.

Vanguard sites will be decent until its all OTAs and then everyone will leave and go back to running L4s like I will until the next good pvp roam starts up that is.

Headquarters and Assault sites are also off a bit. The assault sites now take longer and are more variable, which I think is good, but due to the influence changes they are much more difficult when there are no vanguard fleets helping reduce the influence. I think a a fix to OTAs will fix the secondary influence effect.

Headquarters sites are effected in the same fashion. Ships can get popped too quickly if the influence is too high. So the only HQ site that can be ran is the painfully slow TPPHs, and by the time you finish it the influence regenerated about as much as you reduced it by.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#250 - 2012-04-28 10:57:35 UTC
For what must be the millionth time... I don't have an issue with nerfing Vanguards... I'm one of the people that made most of them while they were amazing to farm.

I just feel incursions are the only aspect in eve where more effort doesn't = bigger reward.

I could farm lvl 2's till the cows come home and not make 100 mill in a whole day. or I could farm lvl 4's with a bit more work and make about 10X that of doing lvl 2's

The same kind of escalation needs to be part of incursions. VG's at 60-70 mill/hour ASS's 120-140 mill/hour and HQ's 240-280 mill/hour makes perfect sense to me.

(HQ's take a long as time to form up for. if you actually took form up time into effect, it's about 1 hour of form up minimum before you activate a gate)
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#251 - 2012-04-28 12:18:18 UTC
I think 200+ per hour is a bit excessive....but 100-ish for HQs sounds perfectly reasonable for the amount of effort involved, especially considering that 100 with a consistent fleet could easily turn into 50 or less when logistical problems arise.

thhief ghabmoef
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#252 - 2012-04-28 13:13:41 UTC
Well incursions is nerfed.

Now carebears you can convo me about 0.0 rent, trollface.jpg
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#253 - 2012-04-28 13:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
0.0 rent my ass, npc null is where the fun is at.

I don't know why you people assume we're all carebears...you have to fund things somehow. We'd found a fun way of doing so, and it got nerfed to near-uselessness instead of being balanced out properly. You'd be upset too.

thhief ghabmoef
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#254 - 2012-04-28 14:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizvig
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
0.0 rent my ass, npc null is where the fun is at.

I don't know why you people assume we're all carebears...you have to fund things somehow. We'd found a fun way of doing so, and it got nerfed to near-uselessness instead of being balanced out properly. You'd be upset too.

In these npc nullsec do not rent.

We dont want fun, we looking for slaves and renters-pets. hahaha Twisted
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#255 - 2012-04-28 14:27:18 UTC
Vizvig wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
0.0 rent my ass, npc null is where the fun is at.

I don't know why you people assume we're all carebears...you have to fund things somehow. We'd found a fun way of doing so, and it got nerfed to near-uselessness instead of being balanced out properly. You'd be upset too.

In these npc nullsec do not rent.

We dont want fun, we looking for slaves and renters-pets. hahaha Twisted



I understand you, i too had fun once.

It was awful.

Btw incursions were nerfed too much!

Now i will not be able to do them Sad
Frooth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#256 - 2012-04-28 16:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Frooth
!
Frooth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#257 - 2012-04-28 16:08:11 UTC
Frooth wrote:
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

The same kind of escalation needs to be part of incursions. VG's at 60-70 mill/hour ASS's 120-140 mill/hour and HQ's 240-280 mill/hour makes perfect sense to me.

(HQ's take a long as time to form up for. if you actually took form up time into effect, it's about 1 hour of form up minimum before you activate a gate)






you my friend are fcking brain dead.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#258 - 2012-04-28 16:10:57 UTC
This thread is still alive? Thought you would have gotten tired of all your self-congratulatory boolshite by now...
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#259 - 2012-04-28 17:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: xVx dreadnaught
Frooth wrote:
xVx dreadnaught wrote:

The same kind of escalation needs to be part of incursions. VG's at 60-70 mill/hour ASS's 120-140 mill/hour and HQ's 240-280 mill/hour makes perfect sense to me.

(HQ's take a long as time to form up for. if you actually took form up time into effect, it's about 1 hour of form up minimum before you activate a gate)





you my friend are fcking brain dead.


What a mature comment, would you like to leave some substance with your abuse?

If not, move along.
Gudda
Malakim Zealots
Angel Cartel
#260 - 2012-04-28 17:15:00 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxe_SLk5D1s <---- made the video. So this means that vanguards are shiny fleet only from now on ? Twisted 5 minutes... they used to be 4 one sec more is not going to stop me from doing them Blink