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Incoming titan adjustments

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#721 - 2012-03-13 21:07:42 UTC
Wanten wrote:
Seems like CCP have again alienated their veteran players, please remind me why i should continue to play when all i need to train for is a drake.

You had made some steps forward with your recent changes by consulting and listening to players, now you have taken two steps back towards blob warfare and super coalitions grinding the servers to a halt.


Don't worry Fusen guy PL will teach you a new way to fight larger fleets

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Berserkeren
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#722 - 2012-03-13 21:08:48 UTC
Machine Delta wrote:
Lord Thorin wrote:
Incredible that CCP just play into Goon hands!

Lets just call the game "Goons Online" and be done with it. I don't know how goons and others can cry nerf when it's the only way some alliances can counter the huge numbers that can be thrown into one system at any time. They gimp the titan tank by fitting mods to kill subcaps, so therefore take a huge risk to field them in the first place.

TIDI was introduced to deal with large numbers of people therefore making alpha more prevalent, this helped certain alpha fleets and reduced the effectiveness of others....

Just because some alliances have the balls to drop Titans and Supers onto other fleets, why can't the other alliances escalate like the game is intended?

Unbelievable response by CCP and just another move that proves they don't understand how eve works anymore.



Because some alliances...
Yours mainly, end up doing this with all the titans and supers on one side.
Ever wonder why you lose every fight under a cynojammer?





Why do you think that we loose a fight under a cynojammer?

OH WAIT then it comes back to be the biggest alliance to win. :) Nicely done, This have just turned the game into Blob vs Tactics > Blob win.
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#723 - 2012-03-13 21:09:10 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


What beats a 1200 man fleet?


Bombers.
I think also a strong network of forming good alliance relationships.
Titans could do it but theres no counter to them at present that more supercaps can't counter.
Condescending "old guard" alliances who snivel at low SP players then cry on the forums aren't working for you.
Hope that helps.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#724 - 2012-03-13 21:09:14 UTC
There are many things that beat a larger fleet than you. A tight fleet composition with superior positioning skills backed up by competent bombers. A BS fleet with carrier reps. Tier 3s sometimes can, but sometimes lose 87 strat cruisers in a single battle against hurricanes.

Dealing with a large fleet is the on-going problem. However, what is impossible is a ship that is 1. in an unkillable ship with enough carriers repping him 2. and able to kill anyone. The proposed nerf only slows down the second point. I have no doubt that Titans will be able to kill HICs, but maybe not dictors. And at least dictors will always be able to bubble unsupported titans.

So maybe don't engage with inferior forces and you won't lose all your ships. With time dilation, you can generally reinforce your fleets constantly as well.
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#725 - 2012-03-13 21:09:27 UTC
Wanten wrote:
Seems like CCP have again alienated their veteran players, please remind me why i should continue to play when all i need to train for is a drake.

You had made some steps forward with your recent changes by consulting and listening to players, now you have taken two steps back towards blob warfare and super coalitions grinding the servers to a halt.


here's an idea

how about you get off the eve-o forums, stop your pubbie whining, and actually try to do something instead of crying about your coalition's 80bil isk coffins are now just that - coffins

-a- dumpstered the DRF through the floor directly into the ownzone, and we all know the russians have massive hardons for supercaps.

take a page out of their book and stop relying on your isk to win wars for you, you nerds.
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#726 - 2012-03-13 21:10:37 UTC
Berserkeren wrote:
Machine Delta wrote:
Lord Thorin wrote:
Incredible that CCP just play into Goon hands!

Lets just call the game "Goons Online" and be done with it. I don't know how goons and others can cry nerf when it's the only way some alliances can counter the huge numbers that can be thrown into one system at any time. They gimp the titan tank by fitting mods to kill subcaps, so therefore take a huge risk to field them in the first place.

TIDI was introduced to deal with large numbers of people therefore making alpha more prevalent, this helped certain alpha fleets and reduced the effectiveness of others....

Just because some alliances have the balls to drop Titans and Supers onto other fleets, why can't the other alliances escalate like the game is intended?

Unbelievable response by CCP and just another move that proves they don't understand how eve works anymore.



Because some alliances...
Yours mainly, end up doing this with all the titans and supers on one side.
Ever wonder why you lose every fight under a cynojammer?





Why do you think that we loose a fight under a cynojammer?

OH WAIT then it comes back to be the biggest alliance to win. :) Nicely done, This have just turned the game into Blob vs Tactics > Blob win.


yeah blob tactics sure do win how are those 50+ titan blobs working for you m8
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#727 - 2012-03-13 21:10:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
This is also a lie, as you well know that even the best fleet comp can be swamped through sheer numbers, even when perfectly flown, especially with the state of Artillery alpha.

So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).


i've said this before - i literally do not care if artillery alpha is nerfed. alpha-centered doctrines like maelstroms and artillery abaddons are just boring, and I wait for the day we hop into something more interesting.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#728 - 2012-03-13 21:10:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes

The Mittani just beat 1580 dudes solo.

Perhaps you should be more like him.
Machine Delta
State War Academy
Caldari State
#729 - 2012-03-13 21:11:04 UTC
BioZvin wrote:
Just looking forward to seeing what you will get nurfed next, when we start beating you with something els... if people are not to mad at CCP to keep subscribing. Honestly I am not far from it myself, think this is a very poor and ill advised "temp" nurf.

Can you atleast make us able to dock our useless ships so we can get in others ?


Well, if you consider that waving around epeen supercap fleets while losing tech moons to us hand over fist was beating us then maybe this nerf will help you guys with a new strategy that actually IS successful.
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#730 - 2012-03-13 21:11:45 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
This is also a lie, as you well know that even the best fleet comp can be swamped through sheer numbers, even when perfectly flown, especially with the state of Artillery alpha.

So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).


i think that you are literally the most asspained poster in the history of eve-o

your 80bil isk coffins can no longer carry you to supreme victory. adapt or go play world of tanks/tribes.
Powers Sa
#731 - 2012-03-13 21:12:26 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?

Please cite the last time we brought over 600 people to a fight?
The last time was the Day1 invasion of branch, well over 4 months ago.
The next time after that was when there was an East VS West in Defense of that Red Alliance station that we all lost, PL made up part of that number. That is a special case, because we only brought about 400-500.

Go play some L4D with mintchip, you aren't great at rebuttals.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#732 - 2012-03-13 21:12:32 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes

The Mittani just beat 1580 dudes solo.

Perhaps you should be more like him.


Sorry make that 2064 dudes.
Venus Vermillion
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#733 - 2012-03-13 21:12:34 UTC
Wanten wrote:
Seems like CCP have again alienated their veteran players, please remind me why i should continue to play when all i need to train for is a drake.


You could, I dunno, maybe try having fun? This isn't "Training Online" its a game about spaceships.

Rifters are fun.
Drakes are fun.
Titans are space coffins.
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#734 - 2012-03-13 21:13:01 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kazanir wrote:

Supercaps suffer from the "he who has more, wins!" problem in a way that subcaps and caps actually never have.


This is a lie, flat out, subcaps and caps also suffer from the same problem, you're just choosing to ignore that for the sake of your argument.

What beats a 1200 man support fleet? (I'm waiting for one of you retards to say bombers, please say bombers).


Well, sure not 100 dudes! But I think letting 100 dudes completely counter 1200 dudes in a game like this is probably really bad design.

(This is especially when the 100 dudes in question are virtually guaranteed to take minimal losses thanks to easy peeling of tackle and massive supercap EHP.)

So, you're right, 100 or 200 dudes aren't gonna do much against 1200, no. There is no "counter" to 1200 dudes in a single engagement, but given proper FCing, fleet doctrines (not bombers lol although bombers do own), and tactical choices, 200 or 300 dudes can do a lot of damage to 1200, and 600 or 700 might even win, or be able to accomplish their strategic objectives in some way. (Especially since you ***** about how ****** our drake fleets are, you'd think taking them out in a 2:1 ratio wouldn't be so hard!) I would wholeheartedly support more ways to wage asymmetric warfare in this game -- decoupling strategic victory from raw numbers isn't a bad goal. But supercaps were a pretty ****** up way of "accomplishing" that goal and they were one of the worst things wrong with Dominion.

Furthermore, I think that building a coalition that can field 1200 dudes and supply them with ships, training, fleet commanders, resources, objectives, and then keep them from being bored -- these are all important parts of EVE. And it's not actually that easy to do! I'm aware that PL has chosen to not participate in a lot of those parts, but you're blue to people who regularly fielded 800-900 dudes against us in the opening weeks of the Tenal war. Let's not play pretend games where PL is hard-capped at having 200 dudes in fleet and NO BLUES NO MASTERS or something. :P
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#735 - 2012-03-13 21:14:28 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes

The Mittani just beat 1580 dudes solo.

Perhaps you should be more like him.


Sorry make that 2064 dudes.


Oh yeah I missed these other 1488 dudes too. That's alot of dudes he just beat!
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#736 - 2012-03-13 21:15:40 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes

The Mittani just beat 1580 dudes solo.

Perhaps you should be more like him.


Sorry make that 2064 dudes.


Oh yeah I missed these other 1488 dudes too. That's alot of dudes he just beat!


With all these dudes Mittani keeps beating off it's a wonder he has time to get things nerfed.
Nao Oikawasan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#737 - 2012-03-13 21:16:18 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kazanir wrote:

Supercaps suffer from the "he who has more, wins!" problem in a way that subcaps and caps actually never have.


This is a lie, flat out, subcaps and caps also suffer from the same problem, you're just choosing to ignore that for the sake of your argument.


What beats a 1200 man support fleet? (I'm waiting for one of you retards to say bombers, please say bombers).


Grath, this will be hard for you to read, but it must be said.
The reason you have so few members when compared to Goons is because you are greedy snobs. Your members are the worst kind of self important nerds this game has ever seen.
You take tech moons from alliances whose space you inhabit without any thought of compensating them for their costs.
You refuse to educate new players to join in the fun because they will get killed and you may have to waste your valuable time and monstrous pile of ISK on them. The few new(er) players that find themselves in your alliance soon quit because of the unending snobbery and obnoxious attitude displayed by your l33t PVP gods.
You whore yourselves out to BOB. The second most ridiculous alliance ever.

Goons, like it or not, are better for all players. They bring in the new guys, throw them directly into the fight, and teach them to make their own ISK. This makes for more PVP and far more loyalty.
If you acted more like RvB, you'd get a lot more respect in game from Goon and pubbie alike.

I'm not saying that everyone should join Goons. They need an alliance to play with. So get to it. Or quit. I don't care which.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#738 - 2012-03-13 21:16:35 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:

The last time was the Day1 invasion of branch, well over 4 months ago.


Try again, I can name at least 2 times since then that you've brought more than that (and thats from memory alone, not even digging up BR's), 2 weeks ago you had 750 drakes alone, but please, please carry on.

Just because you're not participating with the rest of your alliance doesn't mean they aren't carrying on without them.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Valearx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#739 - 2012-03-13 21:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Valearx
Grath Telkin wrote:

What counters the 1200 dudes.


Obviously no longer your titan blob Lol

EDIT: ************ 2nd missed snipe in a row jesus ****
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#740 - 2012-03-13 21:16:44 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes

The Mittani just beat 1580 dudes solo.

Perhaps you should be more like him.


Sorry make that 2064 dudes.


Oh yeah I missed these other 1488 dudes too. That's alot of dudes he just beat!


With all these dudes Mittani keeps beating off it's a wonder he has time to get things nerfed.



Beating dudes off is a good change of pace from the pegging.