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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#701 - 2012-03-13 20:49:46 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
brilliant, fatal acension will be contacting you shortly.

(p.s it's nothing to do with titans, it's the low cost, high dps and ability to track BS, basically a sc post patch)


ahahaha sure why not

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#702 - 2012-03-13 20:50:45 UTC
Tithi wrote:
Hey guise. I'm not a cap pilot or anything so forgive my ignorance. I can totally understand the logic of this nerf (from an outsiders perspective, I mean), but I have one real question.

What is the capitol ship that cap-heavy alliances should be using to combat subcaps after this change? Carriers?

I think its obviously silly that Titans would be able to hit subcaps, but I think it seems fair that there should be some capital ship that is designed to fight downward.

I wouldn't want these big fleet battles to just change from "Who has the most supers" to "Who has the most Maelstroms."

Any thoughts?


Hopefully they will start using another fleet to combat a fleet. Carriers are currently used quite heavily in regular plain old dust ups and will continue to be used so. I doubt most heavy hitting alliances consider carriers to be a huge deal anymore, they're so fragile they can be alpha'd like any battleship.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#703 - 2012-03-13 20:52:33 UTC
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#704 - 2012-03-13 20:53:30 UTC
Szilardis wrote:
Mike712 wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
Mike712 wrote:
So goons fly blobs of 2 LSE perma MWDing drakes(read massive sig, in fact as big as a carrier) against titans for 2 months to make them look OP, then titans get nerfed.

Good job goons/mittens now you should have the upper hand against a foe who you greatly outnumber....

Counterpoint: You're from battleclinic and thus have zero idea what you're talking about when it comes to PVP in EVE Online.


lol, you couldn't be more wrong, all of the battleclinic mods are PvPers.

Confirming we do lots of pvp like things, but not as l33t as non-BC mods. I mean, the fact we voluntarily moderate one of the largest EVE fansites MUST mean we're terrible, right?

So does Riverini. You're not making compelling arguments out of this.
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#705 - 2012-03-13 20:55:08 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
As you all know AAA doesn't use titans or for that matter supers very much. We've found ways to counter enemy super blobs or in the very least make them ineffective. So here are my two cents on the titan nerf.

Tracking speed nerf is completely fine and was much needed, titans will still be able to hit bs fairly well however, especially if they are webbed, however hitting anything smaller will now be a major pain in the ass.

The scan res nerf is rather ridiculous. If you don't want titans locking subcaps, then simply implement a function where titans can't lock subcaps, that is really rather simple. As people know I like to throw my titan around and DD people who rep poses or aggro on stations. For that sort of warfare this is now completely useless. It will take 20+ seconds to lock a carrier with 3 sensor boosters. Stacking penalty makes it useless to fit any more than 3 really. So honestly any carebear who is not completely asleep at the wheel will be able to make it into the shields 10 times over in his carrier by the time he is even locked.

Another note is that a bs with mwd turned on has the same sig radius as a carrier, so honestly you can lock a bs just as fast if you want to. Lets actually look at some numbers here to further prove this nerf is fairly stupid.

Taking a titan with base scan res 5, putting in 3 federation navy sensor boosters (and yes i'd put officer if it actually mattered a damn).
Perfect skill bonus gives u 1.25 multiplier, fleet 1.1 and sebos further 4.34. Put all these together and you get 5.97...lets call it 6/
This means your scan res is 30.
It will take 17.7s to lock a carrier, approximately as long as it will take to lock a bs with mwd on. Going down one step further bc with mwd on (much more likely scenario) will have a sig radius of around 1400-2000 (assuming no bonuses). This puts the lock time between 19 and 21s. So loking at it the difference in lock time of a mwding bc and a carrier is at most 4 seconds. Putting sig radius a lot lower at 400 for non-mwd bc such as drake lock time goes up to only 30s.

So in essence a titan will be able to lock any ship that it can actually hit in between 17 and 30s. Granted this is much slower than before but at the end of the day it should be able to lock capitals SIGNIFICANTLY faster than subcaps and this nerf does not fix it in any shape way or form. All it does it make shield hugging carriers nearly immune to DD while bss and bcs on grid will still go pop...maybe not bcs so much, but bs still stand no chance against titans, they will be locked and hit rather will.

20s lock time...7s cycle time on guns, that means even with 3 locked targets any titan will have 3 bs perma-locked.

gg ccp...you didn't fix anything...you just made titans more useless against other caps as far as i'm concerned.


Darn you, Makalu. You're making me sad by forcing me to agree with you. :(
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#706 - 2012-03-13 20:55:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#707 - 2012-03-13 20:56:19 UTC
I remember when the NC was literally losing subcap brawls when they had 5 and 6 times the numbers. So what beats 1200 man subcap fleets? 200 man subcap fleets.
BioZvin
The Acheron
Unforgiving.
#708 - 2012-03-13 20:56:43 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?


1300 ?
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#709 - 2012-03-13 20:56:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
What beats a 1200 man fleet?
Titan blob.. Oh wait.. LOL don't have that anymore. Maybe you guys should recruit?
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#710 - 2012-03-13 20:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mynas Atoch
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?
A charismatic leader with a good diplomatic team. EVE is full of them. They'd just rather blap frigates on gates in low sec in their invulnerable space donges.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#711 - 2012-03-13 20:57:33 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?


A competent enemy. Its not our fault that none of those exist in Eve Online at this time. What that guy above me said as well.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#712 - 2012-03-13 20:58:25 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?

a better flown and composed fleet

problem is all of our enemies are somehow worse at this game than we are

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Crakachunky
Elite Mining Services
#713 - 2012-03-13 20:58:36 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?


1200 is not a constant by any means, try 600
a counter to 600 would be:

cheap option, good bubbles with bombers and sniping bc's + competent FC

expensive option, LOTS OF TITANS RAWRRR
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#714 - 2012-03-13 20:59:07 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
tengu fleets don't kill larger fleets of maelstroms

abaddon fleets don't kill larger fleets of drakes

nope


Within reason yes they will, but that wasn't what I asked, so while you're deflecting nicely, neither you nor weaselior answered the question.


What beats the current CFC 1000-1200 man fleet that has become your constant?


Its a pretty easy question to answer, all of your "everything has a counter" guys should literally be leaping off the page right now.

What beats a 1200 man fleet?


obviously not you, nerd
Tithi
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#715 - 2012-03-13 21:00:49 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Tithi wrote:
Hey guise. I'm not a cap pilot or anything so forgive my ignorance. I can totally understand the logic of this nerf (from an outsiders perspective, I mean), but I have one real question.

What is the capitol ship that cap-heavy alliances should be using to combat subcaps after this change? Carriers?

I think its obviously silly that Titans would be able to hit subcaps, but I think it seems fair that there should be some capital ship that is designed to fight downward.

I wouldn't want these big fleet battles to just change from "Who has the most supers" to "Who has the most Maelstroms."

Any thoughts?


Hopefully they will start using another fleet to combat a fleet. Carriers are currently used quite heavily in regular plain old dust ups and will continue to be used so. I doubt most heavy hitting alliances consider carriers to be a huge deal anymore, they're so fragile they can be alpha'd like any battleship.


Well now you've just traded "who has the most X" for "who has the most Y".

You saying "Well they should bring a matching subcap fleet" is no different from them saying "Well they should bring a matching supercap fleet."

I agree with this nerf, but I think some tweaking to carriers and dreads might be necessary to make them more useful against subcaps in fleet battles. Just a thought.
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#716 - 2012-03-13 21:01:10 UTC
Lelob wrote:
CynoNet Two wrote:
Attempts to kill titans are made everyday. They usually conclude in a fashion similar to this, or this.

I find it astonishing that you none of you realise that behaviour like this is what got your toys nerfed.


Throwing a bunch of subcaps at titans and expecting to win is not even close to being a serious attempt. Fielding a fleet of 200 dreads with carrier and super support would be a serious attempt, and is well within the capabilities of the CFC. I understand well enough why CCP thinks titans must be nerfed, but it is not because of any game-breaking aspects of the titan itself, but of the unwillingness of both actors to engage in a potentially costly capital fight when the results remain uncertain. As I said before, nobody will really know for certain if titans truly are imbalanced until a serious, concerted effort has been made to kill them.

And you don't see it as an issue that titans can (currently) kill any ship attempting to tackle them, without subcap support, before this 'serious attempt' can even organise and form up?

Michael Harari wrote:
The killmails mean nothing. A haloed linked interceptor can be hit by titans. You have to actually be moving with some angular velocity for to mitigate damage.

Sure, maintaining transversal against one titan is easy. Please explain how you maintain constantly high transversal against every single titan in a group of 50+, spread out over 60km, while flying close enough to bubble them, before one of them lands the single lucky shot required to kill the ship tackling them.
Bonus marks
Wanten
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#717 - 2012-03-13 21:05:07 UTC
Seems like CCP have again alienated their veteran players, please remind me why i should continue to play when all i need to train for is a drake.

You had made some steps forward with your recent changes by consulting and listening to players, now you have taken two steps back towards blob warfare and super coalitions grinding the servers to a halt.
Sentinel Eeex
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#718 - 2012-03-13 21:06:41 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
Sentinel Eeex wrote:


Judging by the nonsense you are spewing, it would appear that he actually does know more about PvP than you.



Go ahead and refute what I said.

No one is dropping dreads in a support fight to kill triage carriers outside of low sec (where the numbers total in the fight are around the hundred mark)


You are right.

We only did it last time 2 (or 3) days ago.

Why are you so dumb?
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#719 - 2012-03-13 21:07:03 UTC
Tithi wrote:
Well now you've just traded "who has the most X" for "who has the most Y".

You saying "Well they should bring a matching subcap fleet" is no different from them saying "Well they should bring a matching supercap fleet."

I agree with this nerf, but I think some tweaking to carriers and dreads might be necessary to make them more useful against subcaps in fleet battles. Just a thought.


perhaps you should try PvP other than nopod matches in hisec before you comment in discussions about 0.0 warfare between alliances that matter

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#720 - 2012-03-13 21:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Mynas Atoch wrote:

A charismatic leader with a good diplomatic team. EVE is full of them. They'd just rather blap frigates on gates in low sec in their invulnerable space donges.


This is not a game mechanic, and is in relative terms, no different than calling beating a supercap fleet through morale an effective counter.

What counters the 1200 dudes.

Weaselior wrote:


a better flown and composed fleet


This is also a lie, as you well know that even the best fleet comp can be swamped through sheer numbers, even when perfectly flown, especially with the state of Artillery alpha.

So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.