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Intergalactic Summit

 
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So, where's our war?
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Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#141 - 2017-04-03 15:38:25 UTC
I'm glad my words were so provoking. This has been a productive afternoon!

You and I both know neither of us have any right to talk about principle given whom I have done odd jobs for, and whom you currently have a loose affiliation to.

If it's war it's war, and you know better then to think I wouldn't partake in mutual genocide for the sake of my home. But if its peace then those who seek it need to offer something both sides can stomach in the long term, otherwise how else will both sides accept it?

I'll be watching the official govenments either way on that one, given all this hot air on a forum accounts for as little as you see the Yulai Accords. I recommend sabre rattlers and peace protestors alike keep messaging their respective nation's official contacts till there's an answer either which way.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#142 - 2017-04-03 15:44:47 UTC
That is my point. There is nothing that would satisfy either side that the other would be willing to give. There is no peace to be had, so this pretense and lie of peace is outright deplorable in its dishonesty.

Hiding behind it and pretending it's real, denouncing the "illegal" acts of their own side while supporting the governments that perpetuate those acts... I can not even imagine the amount of mental contortion required to justify that position.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#143 - 2017-04-03 18:13:15 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
The same tit for tat can be said about Republic Fleet vessels illegally encroaching on Amarr sovereign high security territory in the hundreds, if not thousands, building gates and the like despite the Yulai accords against such things. You might see them as justified in their actions just as some Amarr see those that illegally enslave as justified in theirs.


Whether I see them as justified or not, they aren't taking slaves. The Imperial Navy is.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#144 - 2017-04-03 18:16:36 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I am pretty sure if Imperial Navy commits illegal enslavement act, when they will be presented with evidences, those who participated in this will be punished accordingly to the law (and maybe even will be enslaved themselves).


The next time that happens will, to my knowledge, be the first.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#145 - 2017-04-03 21:02:03 UTC
I worked for Amarr Empire's Ministry of Internal Order briefly and was sent to exterminate illegal slavers.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Serech Sapphire
Doomheim
#146 - 2017-04-13 18:02:57 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
It's been almost ten years since Malaetu Shakor stepped into office as the Republic's prime minister (later 'Sanmatar').

While more patient minds cautioned against it, many clans supported him, because he made them promises of new glory, of a full-out war at last, the final throwing off our shackles. At his inaugural speech, he seemed confirm their hopes: "Sons and daughters of Matar, make no mistake about it. [---] Let it be known from this day forth that we are a race of warriors, not slaves, and that we will fight to the last drop of blood for what we hold dear."

Almost a decade. Not slaves but warriors.

And what do we have to show for it?

Oh, we have fought the Militia wars. We have even won it, for a short while, and some of us have metal to show for it. But where was the push on from that victory? The Empire was in turmoil, we held the field, slaves were returning and turning into warriors, and then what? The next step is causing a controversy with his choice of companion and attire?

I am sure our sisters and brothers still in the darkness rejoiced and complimented his bravery.

Where is our war, Sanmatar Shakor?


As if actual war will solve anything...The real question should be when will the war(s) end?

Besides the balance of power is close enough that any kind of open total war would be catastrophic,maybe even to a point of no return, for anyone involved.

And coming to think of it, you do have your war, only that is a cold one.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#147 - 2017-04-13 18:57:36 UTC
She was being facetious, I think, sir. She's kind of highlighting how, in the end, even those in the Republic who pushed hardest for war, in the end understood that it was a path to ruin, more than freedom or justice.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#148 - 2017-04-14 09:28:44 UTC
Nice theory, Jenneth, but no, that's not what I meant.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2017-04-14 12:21:53 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Nice theory, Jenneth, but no, that's not what I meant.


Oh.

So what did you mean?
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#150 - 2017-04-14 12:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Well, New Eden is not a political vacuum. The reason why you're not at war may lie outside of Republic borders, in the State and the Federation. How would they react?

The Federation would almost certainly side with the Republic in the event of Imperial aggression, but I don't think it could be so readily counted on to charge into battle alongside the Republic in the event that the Minmatar declared war and attacked.

And the State? The State mostly cares about profit, and the Amarr are an enormous trading partner (not to mention breadbasket) and we do export to the Republic as well.

Either way, aggression by either side would force us (that is, the State and the Federation) to either abandon our political and economic best interests and lose some valuable investments...or it would force us both to pick a side and get dragged into somebody else's war.

And speaking as a Caldari? I do not want further war with the Federation. We got what we wanted - the homeworld is back under our control (or at least is sufficiently so as to satisfy my own sense of justice), and the Federation recognizes our State as a legitimate and independent sovereign nation. So long as that state of affairs continues then our objectives are met and we have no further need for or interest in continued hostilities: Everything after that point is senseless rancor and bitterness which I hope will fade in time.

It's in the State's best interest now to pursue a healthy enough relationship with the Federation that we can expand our trade surplus to them, and it's in the Federation's best interests to pursue a healthy relationship with the State for exactly the same reasons.

So I suspect at least part of the reason why there is not a genuine war between the Republic and the Empire at this point (that senseless black hole for lives and resources they call the militia conflict doesn't count) is the exertion of soft power by foreign influences. Us northerners stand to lose a lot from a war in the south, and our movers-and-shakers will be doing what they can to avoid it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#151 - 2017-04-14 15:34:44 UTC
That is excellent political analysis.

However, current government hijacked their position on the grounds that war is a viable solution. Changes made in our system were intended to support that position.

If the war is not coming, we should definitely in the very least go back to the organization of the Republic that was geared for industrial growth and strengthening the nation, and stop pouring resources to a toy war. Wasting our time and resources in playing war is having the worst of both worlds, and serves only to make sure we will lose in the end.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#152 - 2017-04-14 16:23:06 UTC
We agree.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#153 - 2017-04-14 18:17:21 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
There is no peace to be had, so this pretense and lie of peace is outright deplorable in its dishonesty.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
Excessive force will set me free.

-old Minmatar proverb.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2017-04-14 19:10:29 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
There is no peace to be had, so this pretense and lie of peace is outright deplorable in its dishonesty.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
Excessive force will set me free.

-old Minmatar proverb.


You made that up.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#155 - 2017-04-14 23:24:43 UTC
When you are in a pinch, make something up. -Old Vherokior proverb
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2017-04-15 05:21:46 UTC
Never enough Dakka
More Dakka
Dakka Dakka Dakka

~ Gunnery Crew Proverb, to be screamed out as loudly as possible while firing all overheated autocannons with blatant disregard for all notions of accuracy.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#157 - 2017-04-15 12:17:57 UTC
I would like to remind to everyone to not listen to dissidents, who have betrayed Caldari State and hide themselves in some Maker-forsaken wormholes instead of doing their duty to the State: they can't speak for Caldari anymore. Especially when they foolishly claim they belong to us or that we "don't want war with Federation" or even that "the homeworld is back under our control".

It is a pure sabotage of discussion and insult to honor of Caldari State. Caldari Prime is still partly occupied by foreigners, and this is a common knowledge, that you don't need to dig encyclopedias for.

Shame to pro-gallentean traitors, who insult Caldari state by trying to claim they are one of us.

We have a WAR with Gallente Federation. Trade attempts with enemy of the State and calls for peaceful resolution while our lands are still under gallente oppression, is a TREASON.

Burn traitors with a fire! And Glory to the State!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#158 - 2017-04-22 17:05:32 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I worked for Amarr Empire's Ministry of Internal Order briefly and was sent to exterminate illegal slavers.


I'm sure you were, Ms. Kim. The Amarr want to keep up apearances, after all. They get to pretend they don't allow such actions while eliminating those whose incompetence threaten to reveal to all that they are still doing such things.
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#159 - 2017-04-26 03:54:22 UTC
Ah, it's been a while since I have seen Elsebeth poking holes in the absurdity that is the post-Shakor Matari state.

I cannot say I wish her success. The Matari state would be far more dangerous if individuals like Midular were still in charge.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#160 - 2017-04-26 07:12:27 UTC
Why, Lok'ri, I have totally not missed you either.

Still, that must be the sweetest thing you've ever said to me.