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Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes

First post First post First post
Author
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-10-10 17:22:26 UTC
One annoying tidbit I'm seeing now... It's impossible to have one structure, even an XL one, have perfect numbers for manufacturing everything. There are only 3 rig slots and a dozen different rig types for efficiency bonuses. So a medium structure could have perfect effeciency for building T1 frigs, T2 frigs, and T1 destroyers but nothing else. That would require ANOTHER structure which could only have three bonuses.

Seems really overly complicated if you ask me, unless I'm missing something.

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eVRiAL
Origin.
Fraternity.
#42 - 2016-10-10 17:23:33 UTC
Titans in WH are reality.
Bishop Xsi
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2016-10-10 17:23:57 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Requiring a 30b+ structure to even build these ships, with huge vulnerability on top, hopefully means that super caps will become a bit more rare again over time.


That was my first (and only) thought reading this.
Justine Musk
Space Exploration Technologies Corporation
#44 - 2016-10-10 17:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Justine Musk
Aren't now the Citadels a bit underwhelming compared to the industrial complexes?

As today citadels in general are not hard targets to destroy, however what make them really shine is the asset safety mechanics, the same mechanics that when you released them was said to make them "unique" (do you remeber the dev blog "I feel safe in citadel city"?)

Now you are giving the same mechanics to the industrial complexes, and that's a bold move, but a move I somehow agree. What forbid people to stop using (or spamming) astrauses and start using industrial complexes considering the share the same docking rights, the same assets safety mechanics and they cost 1/5th of the astrauses?

Does the release of these complexes imply that citadels need an offesive buff, at least in their medium and large counterpart?
Moridin Mandarb
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2016-10-10 17:25:18 UTC
eVRiAL wrote:
Titans in WH are reality.


Nope. Still need sovereignty, even with the new structures.
Angela Zelin
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-10-10 17:25:48 UTC
So lowsec is losing the production buff it has in the form of the Thukker array?
Is this an oversight or intended? IF not intended, is there anything in the works to keep the current benefits to producing in lowsec?
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#47 - 2016-10-10 17:26:20 UTC
Its quite disappointing that a Large POS replacement (cost 2 bil) will cost 30bil plus.

An 30b structure with outrageous vulnerability window is surely going to be quite a big target.

Courier contracts to these structures will make up for it a little, but moving materials between structures is going to be absolutely disgustingly unfun for anybody who replaces their Large POS with Mediums or Larges.

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Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#48 - 2016-10-10 17:27:09 UTC
Justine Musk wrote:
Aren't now the Citadels a bit underwhelming compared to the industrial complexes?

As today citadels in general as not hard targets to destroy, however what make them really shine is the asset safety mechanics, the same mechanics that when you released them was said to make them "unique" (do you remeber the dev blog "I feel safe in citadel city"?)

Now you are giving the same mechanics to the industrial complexes, and that's a bold move, but a move I somehow agree. What forbid people to stop using (or spamming) astrauses and start using industrial complexes considering the share the same docking rights, the same assets safety mechanics and they cost 1/5th of the astrauses?

Does the release of these complexes imply that citadels need an offesive buff, at least in their medium and large counterpart?

citadels have heavy fighters. these dont
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#49 - 2016-10-10 17:27:36 UTC
Angela Zelin wrote:
So lowsec is losing the production buff it has in the form of the Thukker array?
Is this an oversight or intended? IF not intended, is there anything in the works to keep the current benefits to producing in lowsec?


There is a big production buff compared to hisec that applies to everything, not just capital components. Before - build capital components in lowsec but nothing else, after - build almost everything in lowsec if you want.

Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck

Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related.

Structure name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#50 - 2016-10-10 17:27:36 UTC
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
Considering Standup capital shipyard I is allowed only in low/0.0/WH, does it mean it wont be possible anymore to build for example Freighters and JF's in high sec?



You don't need a capital shipyard to build a freighter.

(just like you don't need a CSAA)

Woo! CSM XI!

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CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2016-10-10 17:28:48 UTC
Messenger Of Truth wrote:
Its quite disappointing that a Large POS replacement (cost 2 bil) will cost 30bil plus.

An 30b structure with outrageous vulnerability window is surely going to be quite a big target.


As opposed to your current 70+2bn structures with 168 hour vulnerability window?
Justine Musk
Space Exploration Technologies Corporation
#52 - 2016-10-10 17:30:07 UTC
[/quote]
citadels have heavy fighters. these dont[/quote]

Large citadels have heavy fighters, medium citadels have light fighters and as you say you large complexes have light fighters and medium complexes just plain drones.

But I'm not sure the simple presence of drones is enough to justify 5-7 times the cost.
Nero Jove
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2016-10-10 17:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nero Jove
Two thoughts:

1) Do you have a tentative road map for the release of other engineering modules to support other functions like reactors?
2) Consider the idea of making deadsticks that have been offline for a long period savalgeable by capsuleers. It would be a good way to clean up as part of them going away.
Maria Checkov
Mine 'N' Refine
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2016-10-10 17:31:10 UTC
Would like some clarification on how bonuses will apply to capital building.

Large gets a max 6 me / 60 te bonus to comps, but the sheets don't seem to mention the actual capital hulls.

Can freighters be built in mediums?

How will a reinforce timer effect the jobs. Will they continue to run, or be stuck until out of reinforced?


Other thoughts.
Still no bonuses aimed at refining beyond unbonused rigs.
Massive vulnerability timers.
Fuel costs are much higher compared to a pos
Defences are utter shite compared to a pos


I was both looking forward to these and dreading them. For now i think i'll just stick to my pos.

Does all of the above better, whilst being a cheaper investment and cheaper to maintain.

It is also harder to kill, doesn't need me to baby sit it for most of my life and HAS A FORCEFIELD!.

Tow Knee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-10-10 17:31:27 UTC
Just more stuff for PVP'ers to shoot and kill. More costs for indy. Don't see anything about fuel costs to run everything either. Already way out of whack for capabilities especially the market hub. Now we'll have to maintain more structures especially if you want to rig for max results. That means more specific role facilities. Still trying to see the boom for Indy here.
Angela Zelin
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2016-10-10 17:33:08 UTC
Messenger Of Truth wrote:
Angela Zelin wrote:
So lowsec is losing the production buff it has in the form of the Thukker array?
Is this an oversight or intended? IF not intended, is there anything in the works to keep the current benefits to producing in lowsec?


There is a big production buff compared to hisec that applies to everything, not just capital components. Before - build capital components in lowsec but nothing else, after - build almost everything in lowsec if you want.


Yes. However, currently lowsec has a bonus in the thukker array in that you cant anchor it outside of lowsec. That means, right now, you can make ships cheaper in lowsec than you can in null. With the new changes and the bonuses outlined in the blog, that bonus is going away and lowsec is losing one of the few boons that it has at the moment.
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#57 - 2016-10-10 17:33:12 UTC
Justine Musk wrote:
Aren't now the Citadels a bit underwhelming compared to the industrial complexes?

As today citadels in general are not hard targets to destroy, however what make them really shine is the asset safety mechanics, the same mechanics that when you released them was said to make them "unique" (do you remeber the dev blog "I feel safe in citadel city"?)

Now you are giving the same mechanics to the industrial complexes, and that's a bold move, but a move I somehow agree. What forbid people to stop using (or spamming) astrauses and start using industrial complexes considering the share the same docking rights, the same assets safety mechanics and they cost 1/5th of the astrauses?

Does the release of these complexes imply that citadels need an offesive buff, at least in their medium and large counterpart?


They cost "1/5" of the astras?

Nonsensical hyperbole is not a very useful rhetorical technique.

Astras probably could use a little something to make them more attractive (especially in high sec) in general, but the market service and capital docking provides plenty of utility the larger citadels.

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Agfro Er
Secret Wormhole Authority Group
#58 - 2016-10-10 17:33:25 UTC
Not excited to see the longer timer paired with less HP, no fighter bay, and unable to anchor in range of citadel defenses. I'm worried my future weekends will be entirely consumed warping from structure to structure to keep an eye on them instead of enjoying the game.

It makes sense to have these structures more vulnerable than the citadel, but redistributing asset/defense locations across system, when small corps are built around managing a single central defensive point, will break the parity for small corps and severely limit access to areas of the game that are currently available to them.

Any chance to allow indy structures on same grid as citadel? Maybe extend some penalties to the citadel. Such as extended vulnerability window for the citadel, or increased damage applied.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#59 - 2016-10-10 17:36:37 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
Considering Standup capital shipyard I is allowed only in low/0.0/WH, does it mean it wont be possible anymore to build for example Freighters and JF's in high sec?



You don't need a capital shipyard to build a freighter.

(just like you don't need a CSAA)


Thx, lets hope it stays that way also with engineering complexes. Got my vote again for CSM Smile

I would also welcome bigger defensive capabilities and shorter vulnerability windows - those structures seem a bit like sitting ducks - and still pretty expensive ducks What? ...waiting for the rig material requirements and BPO costs...
Iceseller
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-10-10 17:37:37 UTC
Will the 25% bonus to engineering rigs also apply to the reprocessing rigs from the original citadel update?