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Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes

First post First post First post
Author
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#21 - 2016-10-10 16:53:32 UTC
Quote:
The other materials that were a part of the job (including BPCs), as well as any completed but undelivered job outputs, will have a chance to drop into the structure wreck just like structure modules.

A question on the part related to completed but undelivered jobs: will the manufactured item have a chance to drop, or its materials (for a very basic example, if 10 shuttles were produced but not yet delivered, would the potential loot be 10 shuttles, or the 20k tritanium)?
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-10-10 16:55:12 UTC
Opner Dresden wrote:
The docking restrictions are goofy and unintuitive to players. They should be Small, Medium, Large for consistency. I'm disappointed that CCP continues to push pilots into mega-alliance groups and encourage blue donut mentality by forcing the choice of coffining players in supers or joining those who can afford a Keepstar.

Today, you can store and build a supercapital in a 2b isk POS... now it's a 30b+ structure with no ability to store them? This is a horrible shift of power to larger groups.


Requiring a 30b+ structure to even build these ships, with huge vulnerability on top, hopefully means that super caps will become a bit more rare again over time. The ease with which you can build them today is kind of silly really. It should be the larger groups who have the power to build and wield these ships. That's the payoff for their investment into owning sov.

No longer can you throw down 20 relatively cheap POS's to keep your enemy guessing which one has a capital in build. Now you have to throw down a really expensive one and everyone can see what you're building there. I only see positives here. Less supercaps and more conflict drivers. There's really very little reason to attack an armed Keepstar. There will be ample reason to attack an armed Sotiyo.

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Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#23 - 2016-10-10 16:57:44 UTC
Opner Dresden wrote:
The docking restrictions are goofy and unintuitive to players. They should be Small, Medium, Large for consistency. I'm disappointed that CCP continues to push pilots into mega-alliance groups and encourage blue donut mentality by forcing the choice of coffining players in supers or joining those who can afford a Keepstar.

Today, you can store and build a supercapital in a 2b isk POS... now it's a 30b+ structure with no ability to store them? This is a horrible shift of power to larger groups.


If anything, it again reinforces the idea that the cost/benefit ratio of the POS is severely out of whack and being corrected through these new structures. It was the same with Citadels with people complaining that a 1B ISK POS could fight better than a Medium Citadel. I'm not sure what argument you're making about large groups and supercapitals. Those ships are arguably the domain of organized larger groups, not small groups and solo players.

Sir SmashAlot wrote:
Looks like I am going to need to replace my user unfriendly POS with roughly 5 to 6 "easy to use" structures to get similar utility that I already have. Ugh


Same point as above.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#24 - 2016-10-10 16:58:59 UTC
A bit sad over the higher vulnerability timers and the retaining of the system cost manufacturing index, but I understand why both of these aspects are necessary.

What of the ability to use a Market Service Module? Is it limited to L and XL or only for XL?

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Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#25 - 2016-10-10 17:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Obil Que
Altrue wrote:
A bit sad over the higher vulnerability timers and the retaining of the system cost manufacturing index, but I understand why both of these aspects are necessary.

What of the ability to use a Market Service Module? Is it limited to L and XL or only for XL?


I expect that the market service module can only be fit to Fortizars, Keepstars, and the Palatine Keepstar. Not the engineering complexes. It would seem counter-design to allow a manufacturing structure to provide the market services of a Citadel. Same, I would expect, for clone services.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#26 - 2016-10-10 17:01:26 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Opner Dresden wrote:
The docking restrictions are goofy and unintuitive to players. They should be Small, Medium, Large for consistency. I'm disappointed that CCP continues to push pilots into mega-alliance groups and encourage blue donut mentality by forcing the choice of coffining players in supers or joining those who can afford a Keepstar.

Today, you can store and build a supercapital in a 2b isk POS... now it's a 30b+ structure with no ability to store them? This is a horrible shift of power to larger groups.


Requiring a 30b+ structure to even build these ships, with huge vulnerability on top, hopefully means that super caps will become a bit more rare again over time. The ease with which you can build them today is kind of silly really. It should be the larger groups who have the power to build and wield these ships. That's the payoff for their investment into owning sov.

No longer can you throw down 20 relatively cheap POS's to keep your enemy guessing which one has a capital in build. Now you have to throw down a really expensive one and everyone can see what you're building there. I only see positives here. Less supercaps and more conflict drivers. There's really very little reason to attack an armed Keepstar. There will be ample reason to attack an armed Sotiyo.


This after POS removal can lead to monopolization of supercapital producion... in theory.

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Citizen of Solitude

Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
#27 - 2016-10-10 17:02:27 UTC
In the devblog, there was an avatar visible under construction from thhe outside. Will this be the case for all ships under construction? And will there be visible indicators from the outside if certain types of job are running?
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#28 - 2016-10-10 17:02:45 UTC
Looks pretty good. Will the larger Shipyards be able to produce smaller ships? So can you use the Capital Shipyard to also produce subcaps and the Supercap Shipyard for caps?

It would be good to know whether the Shipyards will also require PI materials or if they are limited to minerals.

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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-10-10 17:03:14 UTC
Will you be able to fit doomsdays onto the sotiyo for defense?
or will this only be able to be fitted on keepstars?
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#30 - 2016-10-10 17:03:51 UTC
Considering Standup capital shipyard I is allowed only in low/0.0/WH, does it mean it wont be possible anymore to build for example Freighters and JF's in high sec?
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2016-10-10 17:08:01 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:

This after POS removal can lead to monopolization of supercapital producion... in theory.


Isn't that already the case, though? It's not like any large group is currently selling super caps to their enemies. And the small guys get their capitals used through third parties (or the new Keepstar network Lenny is building).

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Moridin Mandarb
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2016-10-10 17:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Moridin Mandarb
"Standup Supercapital Shipyard I - allows manufacturing supercapital ships and is exclusive for the Sotiyo XL Engineering Complex. This service module also requires capsuleer alliance sovereignty and the ‚ÄúSupercapital Construction Facilities‚ÄĚ Infrastructure Hub upgrade"

CCP, please be careful with this. We already have a situation where a smaller entity cannot deploy a Keepstar without prior approval from PL and NC. I imagine these new citadels will fall in the same category. And whereas anyone can put up a POS in a remote system and then quickly put up a SCSAA, the online time for citadels provide lots of time for a scout to spot the citadel and warn PL before it comes online.

You could be ARE creating a situation where the two entities that have the most supers are in a position to be the ONLY ones that have supers.

Edit: After looking at the vulnerability windows, needed to change my statement
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#33 - 2016-10-10 17:11:18 UTC
will citadels overall be receiving a balance pass to adjust the current rigs for reprocessing and the reprocessing plant? i believe there was a brief bonus applied up till these things came out.. will that be removed. i really do not like the rig aspect of these structures its like you're throwing away any regard of the current market in turn forcing prices to rise thru the roof on the market for t2 salvage components.

also will defenses be updated so that these things will not be eggshells and actually have some type of good defense system so 29 t3 cruisers cant come in and zap it to RF within a few minutes?

BPO cost? ok you've dropped a carrot today finally posting this long awaited dev blog.. but you avoided mentioning the cost.. or are you waiting for fozzie to shave and wear the same shirt he wears for the o7 show.. to then disclose the price cost for the new structure bpo?...

RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#34 - 2016-10-10 17:14:36 UTC
...Hmm...Well... What can I say here... While the new structures look awezome and im really looking forward to them.

I cant help but feel that 20 blocks for each of the medium ones services.. Wich is a total of 60 blocks or 45 blocks if you include the 25% fuel reduction bonuses.

makes these things EXTREMELY expensive to maintain, and the fact that invention and research is 2 difrent services sucks like mad as well.

Heck i cant even fit a refining service on it cause there is only 3 service slots on the Raitaru.

So yeah im not sure about my feelings anymore now...
CrazzyElk
Big Shadows
The Initiative.
#35 - 2016-10-10 17:15:20 UTC
Any info/numbers on reprocessing with these new structures ?
Lavayar
ANGELGARD.
Red Alliance
#36 - 2016-10-10 17:16:26 UTC
How many manufacturing lines grants each factory module? Especially supercapital lines.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2016-10-10 17:17:40 UTC
Lavayar wrote:
How many manufacturing lines grants each factory module? Especially supercapital lines.

Infinitely many.

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Anthar Thebess
#38 - 2016-10-10 17:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
This docking limitations compared to size are just so funny.

This XL structure will make PL stronger than ever.
It will be so easy to control the production now.
CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2016-10-10 17:19:24 UTC
Lavayar wrote:
How many manufacturing lines grants each factory module? Especially supercapital lines.


Depends on the size of your space balls.
Jadecca
Athanos Industries
Dead Heaven Syndicate
#40 - 2016-10-10 17:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jadecca
Big Question -


How Much Will BPOs Cost?