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Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes

First post First post First post
Author
Jew Jew Binks
Doomheim
#81 - 2016-10-10 18:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jew Jew Binks
thukker component array will not have a replacement in these structures ?

i also think is a bad idea to make 2 separate rigs for large structures for normal capital components and advanced capital components. large and extra large rigs are too damn expensive

Edit: the speciffic rig problem i mentioned can be worked out by merging them in one rig
Echo Mande
#82 - 2016-10-10 18:13:11 UTC
Can some other type of rigs also get bonused for building fuel blocks? Having only structure rigs get a bonus for fuel blocks seems unbalanced in that they will be more or less 'required', especially if the structure owner doesn't have a POS to build them elsewhere. Currently you can build fuel blocks in component arrays.
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#83 - 2016-10-10 18:13:16 UTC
CCP: The anchoring time is the same as Citadels. Is the decommissioning time the same? (One week?)

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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#84 - 2016-10-10 18:15:13 UTC
I'm sure what I'm about to type has been stated multiple times through out the process of this structure rework in EVE.

The Medium Engineering Complex will require 9 hours of vulnerability weekly, with 18 hours and 36 hours for the Large and XL Engineering Complexes respectively

... is a stupid mechanic. Give them an extra timer for reinforce or destruction but making something in space invulnerable for all but 9/18/36 hours a week is lame. The most common argument is 'this is the way it worked before technically' and while I agree to some extent with POS's and outposts being easy to change when the timers came out, think of it from a hostile FC standpoint... I want to make a name for myself in my new alliance by going out and reinforcing stuff, picking fights, poking beehives, flying spaceships. With a POS or outpost I can go do that, it's floating in space and I can shoot it to provoke a response. You've made all these structures literally invulnerable for all but a tiny window. It's a giant **** mechanic in a game that used be HTFU or GTFO.

Not today spaghetti.

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#85 - 2016-10-10 18:15:20 UTC
Will it be possible to process gas for boosters, t2 or t3 production within the upwell structure? Will the assembly lines be capeable of supporting pharmacudical manufacture?
Babbet Bunny
#86 - 2016-10-10 18:16:20 UTC
Too expensive and too many rigs.

Not worth switching and will make you non competitive to buy in.

Will stick with POS's till they remove them.

Will elaborate more later.
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#87 - 2016-10-10 18:17:21 UTC
Will the APIs (XML API and CREST) be updated to be fit for purpose with the new complexes?

--

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2016-10-10 18:17:46 UTC
No new POS from December.

What's happening to moon mining?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Virtus Crusade Protectorate
#89 - 2016-10-10 18:19:05 UTC
Anna Lightyear wrote:
Overall I like the look of them (citadel skins, so we can get rid of the yellowness? Shocked )

While I hate to bust out a bit of common sense/lore here, why on earth do we have an advanced civilisation that applies defensive systems to structures with no real purpose but to be shot at, and the structure that are critical to life, economics and the welfare of all have bugger all?

I'll be happy to see more big things go boom with a chance for some nice bpc's and materials to drop (bringing freighters to pvp ops ftw!), but key assets for industry need some sort of defensive capability, especially one that an be killed by 5 T1 ships in 20 minutes, this seems unwise.

The new rorqual is probably easier to defend than these citadels.

Can we also get an idea on the costs of the BPO's please?



Exactly. Why would the citadel citadel have the most defenses...yet the one that makes the economy go round, less. Makes no sense.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#90 - 2016-10-10 18:20:12 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
No new POS from December.

What's happening to moon mining?

POS are still available. Outposts are what will be blocked after December (aka, Sov Null stations).
Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2016-10-10 18:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Banko Mato
Interesting dev-blog, but leaves me greatly disappointed in terms of how the rigs are designed... totally overcomplicated and only leading to frustratingly narrow (partly effective) specializations. My proposal would be to unify more on the medium and large rigs:


  • on mediums have the rigs grant ME and TE together (or cost+time for research) but for only one category, just as your large ones on the list (so small ships, medium ships, me, te, copy, etc...)
  • on large ones have them grant ME and TE but for 2 adjacent categories, e.g. invention+copy, me+copy, te+copy, ammo+equip, small+med ships, med+large ships, etc...
  • generally unify advanced ships and their t1 counterparts in terms of rigs


This would still grant the XL EC enough bonus in terms of generality over the L and M versions but would remove the need og having an entire floating city of M and L to enable at least a minimum of bonused diversity as it any small pos can provide... imho a large should at least allow max bonus to 2 different sets of advanced production lines (e.g. t2 small and medium ships, including components; or ammo + modules, including components, too).

Unless ofc it's your goal to make producers fly between multiple complexes all the time...


edit: scratch that too, make it dual category on mediums for production and have the large ones grant flat out universal bonuses to:

  • "invention" (invention + copy)
  • "research" (me + te research)
  • "components" (cap + t2 components + structures)
  • "consumables" (ammo, charges + drugs)
  • "subcaps" (small, med, large ships + drones,fighters)
  • "caps" (what the name implies...)


still means a large one has to somewhat specialize but at least now it can get a solid t2 ship production of more than a single size category including components in max bonused form plus some lesser bonus to e.g. invention...
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#92 - 2016-10-10 18:28:17 UTC
Ms Michigan wrote:
Anna Lightyear wrote:
Overall I like the look of them (citadel skins, so we can get rid of the yellowness? Shocked )

While I hate to bust out a bit of common sense/lore here, why on earth do we have an advanced civilisation that applies defensive systems to structures with no real purpose but to be shot at, and the structure that are critical to life, economics and the welfare of all have bugger all?

I'll be happy to see more big things go boom with a chance for some nice bpc's and materials to drop (bringing freighters to pvp ops ftw!), but key assets for industry need some sort of defensive capability, especially one that an be killed by 5 T1 ships in 20 minutes, this seems unwise.

The new rorqual is probably easier to defend than these citadels.

Can we also get an idea on the costs of the BPO's please?



Exactly. Why would the citadel citadel have the most defenses...yet the one that makes the economy go round, less. Makes no sense.



I know, right?

The armament found at my company's factories makes the average army base look like the Nerf aisle of a Toys-R-Us.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#93 - 2016-10-10 18:31:37 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
No new POS from December.

What's happening to moon mining?

POS are still available. Outposts are what will be blocked after December (aka, Sov Null stations).

Ah ok. My bad. Misread.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#94 - 2016-10-10 18:37:22 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jawen Serce wrote:
Still nothing about SMALL sizes of those strctures ?


Why would there be anything about SMALL sizes of those structures? They're not happening.

It's not like they just haven't gotten around to making a dev blog about it just yet - they're not a thing. They're not a planned thing. They've never been a planned thing. They've never said anything to suggest that will ever be a planned thing.

Small structures are mobile depots and MTUs and the like.

That's the problem, though. For a small-sized group, or for a group of casual players, even the Medium Citadels are somewhat unattainable (and can be a pain to defend if you aren't in highsec). A group of 5-10 players have as much right to exist as a group of 50-100 or 500-1000. The Mediums also aren't very kind towards nomadic groups.

I would love to see a Small Citadel that had docking, tethering, and repairing, and that was it, in the price-range of a fully-fit medium tower (~400 mil). No rigs or modules, no services, just the ability to dock, tether, and repair. The ability to have a corporate office would be nice, but I'd sacrifice access to that for something smaller and more mobile that would work well as a base of operations for a smaller or more mobile group.

A Small versions of the Engineering Complexes that can only have a Service Module (in order to actually enable the production or science available in it) with nothing else in the way of rigs or fittings would be desirable, as well, for smaller or more mobile groups (granted, industry generally isn't all that mobile).

Make the packaged size 10k m3 so a Blockade Runner can carry one along with the group as they move around, and give them only a single reinforcement period, too, so they aren't overly strong as forward deployables in an invasion.

Honestly, the current structures seem like they're pushing small groups either into living out of NPC stations, or into joining larger groups.

As an aside, another huge benefit of the POS is the ability to ninja one up in hostile space, either as a temporary base of operations when day-tripping in a wormhole, or at the edge of enemy sov. They're a quick way to grab a temporary foothold that are disposable, if necessary.
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
Together We Solo
#95 - 2016-10-10 18:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Manssell
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jawen Serce wrote:
Still nothing about SMALL sizes of those strctures ?


Why would there be anything about SMALL sizes of those structures? They're not happening.

It's not like they just haven't gotten around to making a dev blog about it just yet - they're not a thing. They're not a planned thing. They've never been a planned thing. They've never said anything to suggest that will ever be a planned thing.

Small structures are mobile depots and MTUs and the like.


You are absolutely correct. But to be fair to OP, CCP themselves has muddied the water on this a lot.

First by using the stupid naming convention that's as intuitive as ordering a drink from a U.S. fast food chain (“Just give me the smallest size Dr Pepper you have. Your smallest is called a medium? Why? O.k. whatever give me a medium then. NO I do not want to upsize that to a XXXl Large Supper Gulp Bucket, just give me the small one. Yes fine i mean give me the ‘medium’.)

CCP has also done a pretty good job of ignoring the fact that they are removing some small POS functionality (for the price point) from the game, All while claiming they are not. They’ve done a cheeky job of ignoring all the complaints people have been raising about the new structures compared to small POS’s like Jawn Serce did, while at the same time constantly saying ‘we’re not removing any functionality, small groups and solo people can still use them, stay tuned for new structures’ So people end up assuming some new ‘small’ structure that does what small POS’s did (mobility, cheapness, ec) is coming out.

CCP really just needs to once and for all openly say that the functionality and price point of small POS’s are not going to be carried over to the new structures. Will some people be mad? Sure. Will there be salt on the forums, oh yea. But it’s better to just say that then continue to confuse some people by playing the don’t openly say things wont be the same game.
Jawen Serce
Les Petits Pedestres
Toilet Paper.
#96 - 2016-10-10 18:38:35 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jawen Serce wrote:
Still nothing about SMALL sizes of those strctures ?


Why would there be anything about SMALL sizes of those structures? They're not happening.

It's not like they just haven't gotten around to making a dev blog about it just yet - they're not a thing. They're not a planned thing. They've never been a planned thing. They've never said anything to suggest that will ever be a planned thing.

Small structures are mobile depots and MTUs and the like.

Did i ever say in my post that there were any planned thing about small sizes of those structures ?
I'm poiting out a fact :
POSs will at the end, disapear, and with this disappearance, a whole part of the players will not be able to plant their tent anywhere they want in the game. To do that, they will need to have a huge amount of ISK (minimum 5b -ish ISK) and social relations to defend it properly.

Clearly not a thing anymore for little group of players or a solo player, unless they/he got the ISK and relations.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#97 - 2016-10-10 18:41:45 UTC
Not one word about reactions. Not a single word. No moon mining reactions. No hybrid polymer reactions. No booster reactions.

NOTHING.

I am disappoint.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Centurax
Eve Engineering Authority
Eve Engineering
#98 - 2016-10-10 18:43:50 UTC
I kinda wanted to start with sometime positive, so way to go art department, really good work on the models.

Then we get to the timers and defense capabilities of the EC's I am not sure what the idea behind the long timers and paper thin defenses are but unless you can anchor the EC within weapons range (between 150km and 300km would work) of a friendly Citadel, not sure what the point is. Given that the majority of the owners will be industrialists with possibly little or no interest in PVP, this forces them to spend a very long period of game play time sitting around doing nothing but watch lights blink kinda boring game play.

At this point I am thinking if the industrial mods and rigs fit and work on a Citadel, why should I use this structure, not sure the building bonuses alone would justify using the new EC structures.

I have many doubts on what is actually being achieved here, because I know industrialist and have spent way too much time in a factory and lab my self I don't think this is the correct direction to take the industrial structures. It looks good if you want to attack it, but the only 2 groups will gain from this are PVPers and the guys who build EC's P .

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#99 - 2016-10-10 18:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Soldarius wrote:
Not one word about reactions. Not a single word. No moon mining reactions. No hybrid polymer reactions. No booster reactions.

NOTHING.

I am disappoint.



Why would there be? Drilling platforms are on the schedule for December (Winter, anyway).

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#100 - 2016-10-10 18:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
A big part of the game of manufacturing revolves around working towards maximum efficiency. Max efficiency reduces cost and maximises profit.

This is not something that people worry about when fitting rigs to ships. People are happy to accept a trade off.

Yet here, 3 rig slots each structure and 400 calibration, yet all t2 rigs require 150 calibration.

This is really saying, you can only maximise efficiency on 2 things, and not quite on another.

What's the thinking behind this restriction? Why not let us work to maximise what we can in 1 structure, rather than not be possible?

It seems like yet another gimp of industrial gameplay for no real reason. The more I look at this devblog, the worse it looks for small groups and solo play.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."