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Update on Shadow of the Serpent Event

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Digging Dug
Solar Winds Trade Conglomerate
#41 - 2016-07-07 21:01:35 UTC
I'd just like to say that having the one persistent mission is a great way to have people meet up and cooperate.

Old L1-L4 style missions required teaming up ahead of time so you could find the gate/site. Now you automatically run into other people who have the same goals and you can just convo them and team up. Everyone I've teamed up with has been willing to help with all the other sites types that only one person needs because they are so much faster and simpler than the shipyard.

Everyone is benefiting from the current structure in terms of meeting new people, and I think having the one persistent mission with more site spawns is a big part of that. You could have three versions of a shipyard or whatever, so it doesn't get too repetitive, but all three versions count towards the mission.

So please keep one persistent quest in the future, it makes the informal team up so much easier, and the process of meeting new people and cooperating with them is what will keep people coming back to EvE. (Plus meeting new folks is fun.)

---

Also, I personally like the lack of loot other than the research container. It keeps things simple.

Circumstantial Evidence
#42 - 2016-07-07 21:56:26 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
How about a button:
"pay X reward points to reroll this mission"?
(meaningful choices and so on...)

Also interesting would be if the agents start paying more if a lot of players declines a certain mission (indicates it might be underpaid).
These are fun ideas, especially the first: finding optional ways to get you to spend reward points, ouch lol. The second sounds cool if all event sites are made well, good quality. BUT if many players were to complain that an event site was badly designed, unclear... something just short of broken, and players started struggling through it more often because the reward is higher today - CCP might start to think that "the design isn't bad, we just didn't reward it correctly." Ugh lol
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#43 - 2016-07-08 03:07:55 UTC
I have only done a few sites, as it has been a pain to find any in the area i live.

There seems to be a lot of minor tweaks that would help the event be better.


Something I wish that i've proposed for PVE stuff would be that these would be things that spawned for the individual player, and only open up to the local group once the player warps to it.

This means more sites could spawn for people to run, and thus would allow for more hostile players a chance to grief PVEers.

I hope this makes since

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

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Salmadra
Aurora Blum
#44 - 2016-07-08 08:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Salmadra
Hi,

It was said, that the content of the containers won't change, but i managed to complete the 25k Points for a Silver-Reward yesterday 07.07. on my Alt and got way more out of it.

My Main only got the serp.-skins, one copper and one silver SP-Boost out of the silver-Box. This time next to the skins i got 2 copper, one silver AND 2 gold Boosters. So is the content just random or was there an adjustment for the rewards? I'm a bit confused O.O
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2016-07-08 09:51:17 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
StarLite wrote:
What kind of loot are we talking about for the BC NPC's?
Is it the standard Serpentis BC loot table or specific event rewards?
This will be standard NPC loot, not event specific this time around. Definitely something we will action for next event!
Um... standard NPC loot, NO chance for Serpentis or Angel faction modules? If so, this sounds suspiciously underwhelming, and not the treasure hunt I was hoping for. I don't expect faction modules to drop every time, but we need to have a chance to see an Angel / Serpentis faction commander NPC, that type of loot chance, to help drive interest on a per-site basis.


it's a completely pointless change, but hey maybe next event will be better



It would be great to be able to add high value loot, but as the battlecruiser NPC was not originally designed to have loot, they are in all the event sites.

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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2016-07-08 09:52:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
StarLite wrote:
What kind of loot are we talking about for the BC NPC's?
Is it the standard Serpentis BC loot table or specific event rewards?
This will be standard NPC loot, not event specific this time around. Definitely something we will action for next event!
Um... standard NPC loot, NO chance for Serpentis or Angel faction modules? If so, this sounds suspiciously underwhelming, and not the treasure hunt I was hoping for. I don't expect faction modules to drop every time, but we need to have a chance to see an Angel / Serpentis faction commander NPC, that type of loot chance, to help drive interest on a per-site basis.


why do you NEED to have a faction commander?



I will look into adding this :)

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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2016-07-08 09:54:26 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:

I agree, we should have provided an option to cancel challenges you do not wish to complete. The challenge allocation is entirely random, although I can understand how it would feel very frustrating to end up in a position where you have 3 challenges you do not wish to complete and your only option is to do them anyway or wait out the timer. Unfortunately, for this event, there will be no quick fix for this. However, I am currently working on a redesign and this is one of the big issues I will be addressing for the next event.

I got two of these and thought, not too bad, Seekers are listed as a a type sleeper, at least when you right click on them and look at "remove from overview". So I went and killed one, and got no credit.

What? I killed a sleeper, and got no credit?

CCP Affinity, you can make the sleeper challenges much more acceptable if all sleeper ship types were counted.


This is a defect, it would be great if you could file a bug report with the specifics :) For this kind of thing that seems very strange - always file a bug report as we probably don't know about it!

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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#48 - 2016-07-08 10:00:10 UTC
is there going to be any way for capsuleers to support the pirates in any of these events? maybe switchable mission types with ded/concord instead of pirates?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#49 - 2016-07-08 13:55:13 UTC
Oh boy! we now get t1 trash?! thanks ccp Roll
Serenol Marwysgar
Dot.Inc
TRUE VINE
#50 - 2016-07-08 14:39:51 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
I agree, we should have provided an option to cancel challenges you do not wish to complete. The challenge allocation is entirely random, although I can understand how it would feel very frustrating to end up in a position where you have 3 challenges you do not wish to complete and your only option is to do them anyway or wait out the timer. Unfortunately, for this event, there will be no quick fix for this. However, I am currently working on a redesign and this is one of the big issues I will be addressing for the next event.

Thank you for answer. Sadly you completely avoided Drifter question. Sad

Maybe you could give some practical advices about Drifter killing, especially for EVE newbros?
How one could kill Drifter solo, let's say in T1 cruiser/BC (something PVE designer would expect new player will use in this event)? Or it was designed specifically as suicide bait for unexperienced players?


Yes! I still consider myself very newbro when it comes to certain parts of the game. Drifters are one of them. Especially if this challenge is coming up regardless of a player's experience with EVE, some in-game help is appreciated (or you'll lose players who don't want to google.)
Serenol Marwysgar
Dot.Inc
TRUE VINE
#51 - 2016-07-08 15:03:09 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Serenol Marwysgar wrote:
I've been disappointed that of the couple dozen missions I've completed, I've not gotten any mining missions since the event first went live. The Serpentis Shipyard one seems to be on infinite loop.

Also be nice if missions didn't expire once started. Hate to lose progress because RL keeps me from logging in. Or alternatively, I also had the thought that a progressive system might work better for those with intermittent play and won't penalize someone who grinds missions out - progressive rewards. If a mission is clear 5 Serp Shipyards for 500 points, each site is 100 points. If I complete 3/5, it'd be nice to get 300 when the new mission resets. If I'm lucky I get an hour or two to play and it's not a lot of time for the reward thresholds.


We decided to have the Serpentis shipyard one always available as a challenge so you could always guarantee points from that site. I would love to hear your feedback on that.


I feel we don't get as much fun out of the event as you put effort into it.

The current construction leads to endless grinding of Shipyards for various reasons:
- the mission is always available and guarantees points.
- missions for the other event sites are much rarer PLUS you don't get them because after a few missions all other 3 mission slots will be blocked by "I don't want to do this"-missions.
- it's the only event mission I have seen that has loot
- it can be blitzed and thus has the highest points/hour
- since everyone else is also running Shipyards, there is a fair chance that warping into a site will complete it even faster just because someone else already did half the work
- it is among the simplest missions. Some missions require you to change ships. To do something in a frigate, to mine or to scan requires to head back to base. This GREATLY reduces points/hour. I once tried to complete 5 DED sites.... took hours to find them. I don't even want to get started about completing an incursion.

Variety is great. Nudging people to try something new because it pops up in the Scope Network is a great idea.
But here it utterly fails.
If I head out with the goal of finding out whats in the precious boxes, I will always and ultimatively maximize reward points per hour. Period.
We are talking about 30-50 hours to complete the task and get the gold container, so everything inefficient hast be ignored (I cant play 24-7), despite it might have been a new and fun challenge.
So if you want to promote Mining/Drifter kills/DED sites/incursions, the reward points/hour should be HIGHER or at least in the same ballpark as for grinding Shipyards. And that is including reshipping and preparations.
Which they are not atm. Scanning and running 5 DED sites took me like 2 hours and yielded 500 reward points whereas Shipyards easily yield >1000 reward points per hour.

This is why the event consists almost entirely of doings hundreds of Shipyards... which makes it unnecessarily boring and wastes a lot of potential (since you have designed a lot of different sites and tasks).
We just do not get to play the other sites properly.

Not sure whether this is something that can be fixed easily, but one idea would be to change the "permanent" quest every week or so. This could even be related to a storyline of the event


CCP Affinity, the answer from Edward Olmops echoes everything I'd have said and suggested about the event myself.

I'll amend that opinion for myself in that I'm happy running the sites. The bounties have been very good for my wallet compared to my normal hisec pve activity, and I like killing npcs.

What I'm aiming for with the event is straight out flexibility. As many replies mention, Shipyards are really the only ones worth doing by way of isk/hr and event points. I've been killing shipyards for much the same reason, but the other event sites are neat too - even just seeing the setups, and they can be cleared a bit quicker meaning I can do more of them, which is rewarding as it feels like I make progress.

The issue is that 4 specific quests limit my choice, and I'm passing dozens of sites by to find a system with a not-yet-cleared shipyard. This means tons of pve content is....well, wasted.

My suggestion for next time would be to have every option that's completed reward the player with points, and the Scope's mission box tells me what qualifies for points. Maybe then specific quests could be things like mining. I guess the example I'd use is I kill a rat, I get a bounty. Rework this for the event to be I clear a site, I get event points. Make it fluid, flexible, accessible; remove the specific quests.


Related to some other bug mentions (which I didn't yet put a report in for) but the angel/serpentis gate camp npcs don't reward bounties (I killed 2 or 3 BBs worth 2.5m bounty and never saw it show up!)

Also, the shipyard doesn't seem to reward for helping complete if you are too far from the crate, but still within the ring. Be nice to have that track better. I'll put bug reports in for both once my computer is reassembled.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2016-07-08 16:48:44 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
StarLite wrote:
What kind of loot are we talking about for the BC NPC's?
Is it the standard Serpentis BC loot table or specific event rewards?
This will be standard NPC loot, not event specific this time around. Definitely something we will action for next event!
Um... standard NPC loot, NO chance for Serpentis or Angel faction modules? If so, this sounds suspiciously underwhelming, and not the treasure hunt I was hoping for. I don't expect faction modules to drop every time, but we need to have a chance to see an Angel / Serpentis faction commander NPC, that type of loot chance, to help drive interest on a per-site basis.


why do you NEED to have a faction commander?



I will look into adding this :)


Coming on Tuesday!

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Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#53 - 2016-07-08 17:47:13 UTC
Nice! Does that apply to all of the sites or just shipyards?
Cade Windstalker
#54 - 2016-07-08 17:48:14 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Coming on Tuesday!


Love this, so far the standard drops have been kind of meh verging on annoying. They add about a mil per site, but carting it off in a Cruiser (especially when about half the drops worth taking are Stasis Grapplers) is a bit frustrating for an event that's best done by continually moving around rather that rubber-banding stuff back to a base of operations after 2-3 sites.

Also sounds like a Faction NPC would bump the difficulty of the sites a bit, similarly to how the extra Angels BCs can. I might have to swap from a Vigilant to a Deimos for the extra tank!
Victoria Grayson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2016-07-08 18:19:25 UTC
There are a big problem with your new ship i made a post about it
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=487158&find=unread
Xan Pendragon
Transcendere
#56 - 2016-07-08 18:21:54 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
[quote=Vincent Athena][quote=CCP Affinity]
This is a defect, it would be great if you could file a bug report with the specifics :) For this kind of thing that seems very strange - always file a bug report as we probably don't know about it!


Good luck with filing bug reports.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#57 - 2016-07-08 23:05:57 UTC
More ideas:

Event sites could have more of a "character" to distinguish them from another and possibly make them interesting even if you don't have the associated challenge.

Example:
I like the Serpentis/Angel Guard groups. Why? Simple: they have a total of 3m ISK in bounties which is EXCEPTIONAL for Highsec.
People will often attack them.

The shipyard is unique due to the loot container.

Likewise, other sites could have a unique feature as well.
Maybe one specific site has a few BS in it (=higher bounty).
Maybe one site has a guaranteed faction spawn.
Maybe onesite always gives some reward points on completion, even without a challenge.
And so on...
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#58 - 2016-07-09 00:08:08 UTC
BEST IDEA EVER: STOP ANGELS AND SERPENTIS ENGAGING PLAYERS WHO HAVE A HIGH STANDING WITH ANGELS AND SERPENTIS...

its really stupid, players who go to contest the sites to fight for the pirates get damped and webbed by rats even though they have such high standings with that faction.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#59 - 2016-07-09 01:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
I've recently earned the Bronze level on one of my characters, so here is some more feedback.

Design the system so it rewards you for doing what you like doing, not just for grinding Shipyards.

In 0.0 space, the major impediment I have found is finding enough of the right kind of sites to meet the challenges. I end up going dozens of jumps through hostile space looking for sites and the ISK/hour is just terrible. So far, I've earned two implants (worth maybe 30m for the pair). I'd make way more ISK and expend way less effort running anomalies or even Level 4 missions.

I'd be inclined to do some of the mining missions, but they seem to only pop up when I am not near my mining ships. They also seem to pop up most often on the one character who only has mining level 2...

Swapping in and out of frigates to complete a mission really cuts into my time available.

I think the challenges should be better scaled so they can be partially completed in more than one ship type. For example, instead of giving me "kill five Serpentis Guards in a Frigate for 500," the challenge could be "kill five Serpentis Guards for 100 points, with a 400-point bonus for using a frigate." That way, if that pops up when I am ten jumps from my nearest frigate, I can at least clear it out of the way using my Cruiser, if I do happen to encounter five Serpentis Guards.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#60 - 2016-07-09 04:26:12 UTC
Xan Pendragon wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
[quote=Vincent Athena][quote=CCP Affinity]
This is a defect, it would be great if you could file a bug report with the specifics :) For this kind of thing that seems very strange - always file a bug report as we probably don't know about it!


Good luck with filing bug reports.

No need. The "bug" was me. When I started getting ready to get the data for the bug report, I noticed that my missions were for Drifter kills, not sleeper kills.

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