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Update on Shadow of the Serpent Event

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Author
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#81 - 2016-07-12 12:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
Edward Olmops wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:

I agree on the expiry, ideally we would have a way to remove a certain number of challenges per day that you did not want to participate in and the others would remain. This time around, we decided to have the 3 day expiry so no one would be left in a state where they had only challenges they didn't wish to complete or had tried and were unable to do. You're right, we definitely need to reconsider the multiple sites per reward.

Thank you for your feedback, it's much appreciated.


How about a button:
"pay X reward points to reroll this mission"?
(meaningful choices and so on...)

Also interesting would be if the agents start paying more if a lot of players declines a certain mission (indicates it might be underpaid).

Combination of both:
pay X reward points to get rid of mission Y.
X go into a pool.
Next time the reward for the next player will be higher and the difference is paid from the pool.
(already sort of complicated though)


Yet another idea, this one simpler:

Assume we have 4 random challenges instead of 3 and no "permanent" like "Keep up the Pressure".
Every challenge has a button.
In case you do not want to complete that challenge, push that button and it will be replaced by an instance of the default (i.e. "Keep up the Pressure").
So if you do not want any of the challenges, you can instantly trade them for 4 times the default one.

Advantages:
-1 more slot for variety
-no slots can be blocked by "I don't want to do this"-challenges
-you cannot cycle through challenges indefinitely to get one specific which may be most desirable (let's call it "Bane of the Serpent" :-D). Instead, for every random challenge you wish to discard, you have to complete the default challenge once.
-if you wish, you can still grind through endless repetitions of the default challenge (not sure whether this is an advantage, but someone always insists that a given feature cannot be removed)

I assume that this construction would still lead to a situation where the default challenge is the one that is completed the most often. But instead of being stuck only with challenges you do not want to complete, you would instead collect the wanted ones and then complete them.
Maybe trying to get a certain combination...
It would be good if the default challenge would be a tad less desirable reward wise, since you always have a specialization advantage if you run the same site over and over (highly specialized fit).
The default being the "best" option leads to a paradox situation where maximizing profit means you are forced to do something boring - and THAT is not the kind of "meaningful" choice I'd like to see in the game (nevertheless a bit what we have now with the shipyards).
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#82 - 2016-07-12 14:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
Apologies for excessive posting in this thread, but I have some more specific feedback on particular challenges in the current event.

I have categorized the challenges somewhat (not mentioning "average" challenges I encountered).

A) pleasant surprise - this is actually no challenge since you do not need to change any behaviour but still get extra reward points. A stroke of luck is good for the morale, so some of these might be nice in an event, but don't exaggerate.

examples:
kill 1/10/200 Serpentis pirates - especially the last is incredibly good, too good I'd say. It basically gives 2000 free extra reward points

B) slot blockers - I would never try to complete these, they are just blocking slots

examples:
*kill 10 Drifters - the Drifters have a fearsome reputation of "one-shot everthing - no loot". That scared me of even trying. Plus it's for the same reason one of the few aspects in EVE I never tried.
*complete an incursion - the description is unclear. Does it mean "kill the MOM"? Or just "do one incursion site"? The investment to do this is WAY to high, plus you cannot ensure success alone. Also since challenges are personal, you cannot do this as a team. It is completely unlikely that someone tries to get into an incursion community because of this challenge. It would just be a boon for an incursion runner.
*complete X DED sites - while exploration is fun, DED sites take time to complete, but even worse they are rare and with a bit of bad luck you can search for hours without finding one. Also it's easy to confuse them with unrated complexes. I think it would be fine to have a challenge "scan & warp to X Cosmic Signatures" which can be completed way more reliably.
*kill 50 Drifter battleships in 24 hours - erm... how about NO?
*small challenges: I usually try to complete them to free the slot, but they are not interesting as the reward is small and they make you leave the efficient path to reward points. Mine 50k Veldspar, kill one guard...
*mine 100k Plagioclase - that would have taken me like 2 hours to complete!


C) fun challenges - we need more of this

examples:
*kill a Drifter in a frigate - despite what I said above, I was tempted to try this one. Limited investment, the prospect to complete it quickly, substantiable reward and getting to know a new aspect of EVE.
*kill 200 Angel pirates in 24h - this is a subtle one and COMPLETELY different from "kill 200 Serpentis". Just because there are no Angels in Shipyards. I always felt it HAD to be easy points, but then I got into wondering: where do I find large numbers of preferrably small Angel rats? Belts? Missions? Epic mission arcs? Event sites? This challenge proved to be much fun and in the end worth the 2000 points - but it was not easy.
*kill 5 Sleepers - also a nice one. A bit variety, a bunch of points and the prospect to get them faster than through grind if you do it correctly.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2016-07-12 16:54:21 UTC
Once the event is over, can we keep the sites or something like that in a "no loot" state? I'm having a better time doing this than missions with the stupid back and forth to agents...
Cade Windstalker
#84 - 2016-07-12 18:57:33 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
Stuff and things


Why not just go with something similar to the already familiar "remove one of these every X hours" system from missions? Leave the default if it's appropriate for future events (personally I like always having something I can definitely do) it's just when things I have no ability or interest in doing show up that I wish I could cycle a mission.

There are a couple of ways this could be done, such as selecting from a "hand" of mission cards every time one pops, but the simplest to implement would probably just be a "remove this mission" button with a cooldown. At least then if you end up with something you can't do or don't want you're not stuck with it for days on end.
0ld Solid Snake
#85 - 2016-07-12 23:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: 0ld Solid Snake
CCP Affinity wrote:

We decided to have the Serpentis shipyard one always available as a challenge so you could always guarantee points from that site. I would love to hear your feedback on that.


I'd like to suggest for future events that (in addition to reducing the amount of grind in general P) instead of a permanent, repetitive challenge like "keep up the pressure" taking up a slot, simply give us some basic reward points for participating in any site related to the event, with the random challenges giving you a bonus in addition to the basic credit.

For example, killing event belt/gate rats would always give 10 ish rp each depending on size, while you might get a random challenge like the "Serpentis Menace" offering over 100rp encouraging you to actively seek them out

A site would give 100RP for completing it, with random challenges for specific sites giving additional RP. You could then randomize the spawning of sites much more instead of forcing one to have a really high spawn rate
AquamarineElder
OLD RUSSIA
#86 - 2016-07-13 11:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: AquamarineElder
CCP Affinity wrote:

Coming on Tuesday!

Thats wednsday already, any news ?
Lightning Q
Quantum Dominion
Event Horizon.
#87 - 2016-07-13 22:29:14 UTC
Ellowah

Wouldn't it be possible to also add a "Extend Mission Duration" button.
Like first time agent annoyed but ok second time less reward points or something.
Since only 24 houres for certain missions is not realistic when you want to do the longer missions.
Start on the evening killing like 150/200 ships, log back in next day afther doing some RL stuff and the mission is alrdy gone...
If you actually sleep and go to work, then 24 houres is just not enough time for a casual playstyle.
(Also those timers on occasion just lagg and appear alrdy a few houres in)

Just think of the normal lvl4 missions with a timer of a week and howmany people already let that expire.

Also maybe adding a preference factor that you can pick for certain "agents" would be nice.
Like preference to the miner agent or angel/serpentis etc
Maybe add like do 10 missions for this agent and get a special site in expeditions to kill like an elite Serpentis Officer.
This might be the better loot people have been asking for, also getting more people familiar with the exploration system.

Teamplay idea with the large grids;
Team 1 needs dig their way trough bombs and hacking containers to unlock gates and help/realign guns for the assault team.
While both are on the same grid 6km away from eachother. (So they can see eachother die with wrong hacks :D)

Kind Regards,
LQ
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#88 - 2016-07-13 23:08:11 UTC
Anyone got a fancy battlecruiser yet?
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#89 - 2016-07-14 14:13:44 UTC
There is still yet a lot of room for improvements.

Something I would like to see is the ability to see all the missions from the little dropdown on the left of my screen. Not just the most recently active one.

Clean up the UI. maybe instead of side to side. we go bottom up on the progression bars. and make them a little smaller.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Erosian Aideron
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#90 - 2016-07-14 16:15:02 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Anyone got a fancy battlecruiser yet?


Yes, got a Shadow Serpentis Wing Leader in a shipyard site today. The drop was about 93 mil worth of faction modules, ammo and, tags.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#91 - 2016-07-14 16:21:46 UTC
cool congrats
Cade Windstalker
#92 - 2016-07-14 16:37:19 UTC
Erosian Aideron wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Anyone got a fancy battlecruiser yet?


Yes, got a Shadow Serpentis Wing Leader in a shipyard site today. The drop was about 93 mil worth of faction modules, ammo and, tags.


Any noticeable increase in difficulty or damage output of the site? Also were you in High or Low/Null when this happened?
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#93 - 2016-07-14 16:50:37 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Erosian Aideron wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Anyone got a fancy battlecruiser yet?


Yes, got a Shadow Serpentis Wing Leader in a shipyard site today. The drop was about 93 mil worth of faction modules, ammo and, tags.


Any noticeable increase in difficulty or damage output of the site? Also were you in High or Low/Null when this happened?


it makes nearly zero difference to the difficulty/damage and these sites are exactly the same everywhere, no difference in loot or implants or difficulty
Erosian Aideron
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#94 - 2016-07-14 17:11:45 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Erosian Aideron wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Anyone got a fancy battlecruiser yet?


Yes, got a Shadow Serpentis Wing Leader in a shipyard site today. The drop was about 93 mil worth of faction modules, ammo and, tags.


Any noticeable increase in difficulty or damage output of the site? Also were you in High or Low/Null when this happened?


it makes nearly zero difference to the difficulty/damage and these sites are exactly the same everywhere, no difference in loot or implants or difficulty


I was in High sec space.

As Tyrrax said, the commander BC made little difference in the difficulty of the site. It is just one additional BC after all, even if it has slightly better stats than the normal BCs. Frankly, the Angel Cartel frigate or cruiser groups that occasionally appear are a larger threat in comparison.

Still, it was a nice surprise. I like that it provides something to fight over in the site even if it is a rarity.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#95 - 2016-07-14 17:16:44 UTC
it's a good change, just so rare it's almost pointless, if it was every time then people would be flagging themselves stealing the wreck and fights would ensue
Cade Windstalker
#96 - 2016-07-14 18:37:05 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
it's a good change, just so rare it's almost pointless, if it was every time then people would be flagging themselves stealing the wreck and fights would ensue


If it was every time then the price for the modules and loot it drops would soon crash and the loot would no longer be worth fighting over.

Even with the limited spawns I don't see someone risking their Faction or T2 Cruiser or Battleship over 100mil in loot, in High Sec, when the ship is worth 2-3 times that. More likely you'd see people ninja-looting in Frigates or stealing loot specifically to get shot at and trigger the same old aggression timer tricks people have been pulling for years.
AquamarineElder
OLD RUSSIA
#97 - 2016-07-15 08:48:57 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:

Coming on Tuesday!

Friday, common, just say something, thats sooo stupid, to hide and pretend that nothing was said on that forum
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#98 - 2016-07-15 09:43:10 UTC
it came on wednesday
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#99 - 2016-07-15 10:15:47 UTC
AquamarineElder wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:

Coming on Tuesday!

Friday, common, just say something, thats sooo stupid, to hide and pretend that nothing was said on that forum


Are you expecting to get one on every site or something?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#100 - 2016-07-15 13:38:24 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Serenol Marwysgar wrote:
I've been disappointed that of the couple dozen missions I've completed, I've not gotten any mining missions since the event first went live. The Serpentis Shipyard one seems to be on infinite loop.

Also be nice if missions didn't expire once started. Hate to lose progress because RL keeps me from logging in. Or alternatively, I also had the thought that a progressive system might work better for those with intermittent play and won't penalize someone who grinds missions out - progressive rewards. If a mission is clear 5 Serp Shipyards for 500 points, each site is 100 points. If I complete 3/5, it'd be nice to get 300 when the new mission resets. If I'm lucky I get an hour or two to play and it's not a lot of time for the reward thresholds.


We decided to have the Serpentis shipyard one always available as a challenge so you could always guarantee points from that site. I would love to hear your feedback on that.
Because roaming from system to repeat the same thing over and over in each is just such interesting exciting engaging game play.

What a shame nothing but the shipyard is worth doing and so is not only repeatable but must be repeated many times.
I wonder why Angel Cartel Assembly Points (or any of the other missions) couldn't have drops similar to the Shipyard. Might this not be a balanced thing and encourage players to do something a little different

Turning an "event" into a grind fest repeating the same site over and over is just really poor design. I thought with all the whohah CCP generated for this event it would somehow be better (or at least rewarding and interesting), seems you learnt nothing from the good events you've put on here and there.

Also, for highsec at least, you really need to stop the legal theft of loot and free rewards - Simply shite that some random just sits and watches till the last rat dies and is faster than you at "right click open" to steal the loot AND get "reward points" for someone else's efforts.


Sadly there is more bad Ginding shite with this event than there is well balanced, thought out, interesting game play.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.