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Dev Blog: Scanning and Probing Changes in Parallax

First post
Author
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2015-11-04 18:08:37 UTC
Aaril wrote:
While the interface for probing is being looked at, is there any chance of signature storage being added?

Even with "legacy code", there has to be some workaround. This seems like it could be through a signature database that kept track of the pilots who had scanned it, or the use of personal bookmarks in the background. I am just throwing things out there, but this really should be added. It makes no sense that signatures are forgotten.


Is this where your scan results reset when you change ships, or dock? If so, was asked and answered here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3nz5qa/latest_scanning_interface_changes_from_psycho/cvsj90r

I believe this is a mechanical issue related to session changes. That's why you have to bookmark all of your results before you dock up or change ships in a POS.

The Corporate Bookmarks do have a column to show who bookmarked them however.
Zacoya
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2015-11-04 18:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zacoya
Aaril wrote:
While the interface for probing is being looked at, is there any chance of signature storage being added?

Even with "legacy code", there has to be some workaround. This seems like it could be through a signature database that kept track of the pilots who had scanned it, or the use of personal bookmarks in the background. I am just throwing things out there, but this really should be added. It makes no sense that signatures are forgotten.


For explorers, it would be a big quality-of-life improvement not to lose this information across jumps. (And while you're at it, remember the best hit instead of the most recent hit.)
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#63 - 2015-11-04 18:16:57 UTC
Two new pain points appeared yeaterday:

1. To conserve screen space I generally stack my dscan and probe window so that they are tabs on the same bit of real estate. With yesterdays change I noticed that when the dscan window os on top and I jump systems the probe window becomes the active tab which is anoying because my desire is to see dacan results rather than anomolies and sigs.

2. The check box that specified if filters are to be ised or if all is to be shown on the dscan is no longer present. I know I can get the same functionality but it now takes more time/button clicks. That button was very valuable to me, please consider restoring it to the UI. My habit is to narrow the angle and then click it so that I see everything as that provides a valuable picture. It is the differ3nce between a ship at a celestial and one that is not as well as the difference between a ship at a forcefield and one in space with drones out and a movile tractor.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-11-04 18:40:04 UTC
Did a quick Youtube video to illustrate some of the frustrations with moving and resizing the probe formation. A lot of the time, the mouse clicks aren't being recognized. I tried adjusting the tooltip delay, and also turned off a few more of the icons, but it didn't help.

Logged EBR-53632

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRn8zkrrJSQ
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#65 - 2015-11-04 18:44:54 UTC
It looks like opening D-Scan with alt-D it initiates a scan cycle

If you were so inclined you could exploit this to automate the d-scan process.
Aaril
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2015-11-04 18:47:20 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
It looks like opening D-Scan with alt-D it initiates a scan cycle

If you were so inclined you could exploit this to automate the d-scan process.


You can hotkey dscan now. It is easily automatable by the most common gaming keyboards/mice (and any number of other programs/scripts), while also, I presume, breaking the EULA.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#67 - 2015-11-04 18:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
Delete - does not add to OP needs
Hiljah
Slap Fight Martial Artists
#68 - 2015-11-04 19:00:00 UTC
Hi Goliath,
Thanks for the patience. Is there a way to turn the arrows on the cursor off? I'm sure other people might want just the arrows, but I only ever click on them accidentally.

Thank you,
Hiljah
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia
#69 - 2015-11-04 19:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Styphon the Black
The Probe Scanner is suck! Seriously do you even play EVE? Because with releases like this and the new map it is like you have no clue how players interface with the game and what the term "USER FRIENDLY" means.

I had to turn it off after getting frustracted with it after about my 10 system scanning with the new probe scanner. I really can't give feedback on the new DScan because you have the two locked together on either using them or not. I would like to see an option to use the new DScan but opt out of the new Probe Scanner Interface.

Basically the probe window is completely intrusive and sets overtop everything else blocking important other windows like local and the overview. If you resize it down to a manageable size you can no longer see enough of the system you are attempting to scan.

Atop that I could create a list 20 lines long about how the new scanner isn't designed correctly but I really don't care anymore because I see it as a complete fail and will not be using it.

When you design a change to something like a probe scan or DScan you need to understand that they "player" is going to use either the easiest or most effective method (ie, less time consuming method) for locating their target. So if you design a system that is actually takes longer and is more difficult to use obviously the player is not going to use the new "upgrade".
Aaril
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2015-11-04 19:24:57 UTC
Styphon the Black wrote:
The Probe Scanner is suck! Seriously do you even play EVE? Because with releases like this and the new map it is like you have no clue how players interface with the game and what the term "USER FRIENDLY" means.

I had to turn it off after getting frustracted with it after about my 10 system scanning with the new probe scanner. I really can't give feedback on the new DScan because you have the two locked together on either using them or not. I would like to see an option to use the new DScan but opt out of the new Probe Scanner Interface.

Basically the probe window is completely intrusive and sets overtop everything else blocking important other windows like local and the overview. If you resize it down to a manageable size you can no longer see enough of the system you are attempting to scan.

Atop that I could create a list 20 lines long about how the new scanner isn't designed correctly but I really don't care anymore because I see it as a complete fail and will not be using it.


I believe on the first page of this thread the dev mentioned they are working to get the HUD to still show up while in fullscreen. This appears to be your chief complaint, and it should be fixed.
Arla Sarain
#71 - 2015-11-04 19:32:42 UTC
Bracket hitboxes are still huge and make it difficult to grab the sides of the scanning cube when it's on top of a celestial or sig bracket.
Glitches and Stuttering/low FPS when there is a lot of bookmarks.
Bookmark texts persists sometimes, after the mouse no longer hover over the balloon.

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#72 - 2015-11-04 19:35:12 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
....

I hope these changes show you effectively that we are committed to iteration and we still want your constructive, well explained feedback - so let's have it! Big smile

Hi Goliath. I think you have covered most of it there already. I would also suggest tidying up the icons in general on the solar system map, such as for asteroid belts, planets, etc.

Also please remove those huge red arrows when resizing probes as they look out of place.

Finally you really need to watch these excellent videos which illustrate the main issues far better than I am able to put in words.

Shade Millith wrote:
Click and drag on the blue sphere to resize probes is not working properly, and often flat out doesn't.
Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPohxMoYTI
New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHtKE95VeE

Planet/Gate/Moon/Station icons still take preference over the icon for moving the probes. Leading to attempts to move the probes to fail. This is especially bad with the new system, because the new Planet/Gate/Moon/Station icons have a much larger hitbox than their graphic would suggest.
Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKbZkLXPniw
New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfh4i3hty8

When selecting a gate or planet/moon on your overview, or in space, the old system selected the object in the map as well. This let you quickly identify and orientate yourself while combat probing, and knowing where to put the probes on the map. Especially useful for quickly placing probes on where a hostile warped to.
Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyCGElce_nw
New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEujqHHi6N0

These are three BIG issues I ran into while running prober for a gang, and caused me to take a lot longer to get probes on target than the previous probe system.

Of smaller note, it's much harder to see Red results in space, with the icon being silly small and dark. Especially amongst the red sphere of D-Scan.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-11-04 20:11:21 UTC
Those video examples are great - illustrate the problems very well side by side.
Hiljah
Slap Fight Martial Artists
#74 - 2015-11-04 20:17:16 UTC
Again, thank you for your patience.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2015-11-04 20:55:23 UTC
To make sure this is not overlooked ... the new dscan does not automatically update the results when changing angle and range without scanning again. The current dscan does this auto-update, which significantly speeds up finding targets. So is this a unnoticed regression/bug or a planned nerf?

... also the option to toggle dscan lock should IMO be in the dscan window and not be part of the map controls, you need that option very often, so a hotkey would be handy.

But in general I prefer mouse control for scanning/flying, and the fewer clicks and shorter mouse path the better ... that's also why I'm not a friend of having the dscan button moved to the left. For you it may look cosmetic but for me it is a regression, because there is no equally convenient setup. Also on the top of my screen there are the collapsed chat windows, so I can't reach the map controls easily without moving the windows away ... small things maybe, but they add up to make the interface less usable.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-11-04 21:10:58 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
To make sure this is not overlooked ... the new dscan does not automatically update the results when changing angle and range without scanning again. The current dscan does this auto-update, which significantly speeds up finding targets. So is this a unnoticed regression/bug or a planned nerf?

It actually does. There's just a delay of about two seconds.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
#77 - 2015-11-04 21:29:40 UTC
I like the new dscan, but I dislike probe functionality on the beta map. My issue is if I want to use the new dscan, I don't appear to be able to probe with the old map, as there are no spheres around my probes, and ctrl/alt doesn't show up anything. Working as intended?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-11-04 21:39:52 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
To make sure this is not overlooked ... the new dscan does not automatically update the results when changing angle and range without scanning again. The current dscan does this auto-update, which significantly speeds up finding targets. So is this a unnoticed regression/bug or a planned nerf?

It actually does. There's just a delay of about two seconds.

Maybe I was too impatient while testing ... however, in the current interface there is no delay, the update is instant, and that's the point.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-11-04 22:11:58 UTC
For the Probe Results window, can we have some way to quickly refresh the signatures - either automatically, or via a toggle or button?

Whenever you 100% scan down signatures, or are viewing the anomalies, the ranges are based on your current location. If you warp away, they don't update automatically. In the past, I would toggle "Show Anomalies" on and off quickly to force a refresh. This helps me see which wormhole I am closest to warp to, or if I am on grid. I usually order by range so I can ignore signatures as I land on them and bookmark and map on Siggy/Tripwire.

Because there is no "Show Anomalies" toggle anymore, we have to click into the filter list and then click on/off Anomalies to force a refresh. This doubles the clicks needed to refresh. I know I could use the mapped hotkeys to adjust the filter, but that only works if I'm focused on the probe window.

Could we get a "Refresh Results" button, or have some way for the anomaly/signature results to automatically refresh range when we warp or come out of warp?
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#80 - 2015-11-04 22:22:07 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Maybe I was too impatient while testing ... however, in the current interface there is no delay, the update is instant, and that's the point.

The delay between touching a slider and the result+animation varies quite a bit for me. Sometimes it's instant, but two seconds is more typical. Kind of disturbing.

Frankly I wish there were a way to turn off the auto-update entirely.