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Dev Blog: Scanning and Probing Changes in Parallax

First post
Author
Deridium
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2015-11-04 16:29:22 UTC
In before this thread gets locked too because CCP can't handle the criticism or admit they are changing things that worked fine already.

Give us something we need like oh I don't know maybe Alliance bookmarks
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#22 - 2015-11-04 16:30:03 UTC
Steijn wrote:
the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo.


This. It's much harder for my eyes to process the thin lines versus the old thick background bars.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#23 - 2015-11-04 16:32:16 UTC
Deridium wrote:
In before this thread gets locked too because CCP can't handle the criticism or admit they are changing things that worked fine already.

Give us something we need like oh I don't know maybe Alliance bookmarks


I think we need to update the EVE Forum Bingo to include

"Complain about unrelated feature worked on by an unrelated team"

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2015-11-04 16:34:21 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Isues that are driving me crazy with new scanning window:

1. What I noticed is sometimes the central probe box (that with with arrows on the sides) is lighted up red and when I click it fast after it lights up and try to move it it would not budge.

2. Now the directional scan cone is always present on probing window, but would it not be better if the cone or ball of it would be present only when togled on with a toggle on/off button? The same with probe balls. Toggle buttons! They exist!.

3. Still cant move the cursor to the edge of the scanning window, grab a scene and move it. I can in the old window.
The cursor is just deactivated on the edge, there is some kind of frame there, blocking cursor action, in map window also, Get rid of it to allow cursor be responsive.


1. Yup - we are aware of this one and it'll get fixed
2. There's a toggle that I'm just about to test on Sisi! We don't like adding too many toggles as it greatly increases UI complexity both for users and for testing, but this one we were cool with since so many requested it and gave good use cases for it.
3. Do you mean probe sphere? We are aware of an issue with picking when the probe sphere is near the edge. In the meantime, give the new ways of resizing that we added a try! We put in bindable hotkeys for resizing (you can set them in Shortcuts > Combat) and also Alt-Mousewheel.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2015-11-04 16:35:27 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Steijn wrote:
the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo.


This. It's much harder for my eyes to process the thin lines versus the old thick background bars.


Yup, noted. As I explained above, we will be taking another look at this, but not in this release window.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#26 - 2015-11-04 16:38:34 UTC
Lara Sunji wrote:
It's ... Quite awful all things considered :/



more details about what you think is awefule.

the only issu ei had last night was i could not move probes, so i shifted back to the old interface. So what exactly is 'aweful'.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Zosius
Epicentre Syndicate
The Singularity.
#27 - 2015-11-04 16:42:15 UTC
Can you please return d-scan checkbox for active overview. It's very unproductive to select from drop down menu if i want to do a single scan with everything included
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-11-04 16:42:55 UTC
Looking forward to the improvements!

Two remarks, because not mentioned here:

... why did you change the placement of the dscan button to the left side? This is inconvenient for all folks who have the dscan on the left side (longer mouse distance from HUD/center). I presume most poeple have scanning stuff on the left side of the screen and overview stuff on the other.

... using both hands to rearrange probes (of a fixed formation) is a workaround but should not be mandatory. I need my other hand to operate the ship (e.g. CTRL) for targeting stuff on the overview, but even more important to hold the beer Big smile

I'm my own NPC alt.

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2015-11-04 16:45:17 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Lara Sunji wrote:
It's ... Quite awful all things considered :/



more details about what you think is awefule.

the only issu ei had last night was i could not move probes, so i shifted back to the old interface. So what exactly is 'aweful'.


Was the box to move probes not appearing? You can fix that by pressing Shift or Alt once. Sorry about that...

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2015-11-04 16:45:35 UTC
Zosius wrote:
Can you please return d-scan checkbox for active overview. It's very unproductive to select from drop down menu if i want to do a single scan with everything included


Yeah that got mentioned elsewhere. Defect is in :)

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#31 - 2015-11-04 16:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
3. Do you mean probe sphere? We are aware of an issue with picking when the probe sphere is near the edge. In the meantime, give the new ways of resizing that we added a try! We put in bindable hotkeys for resizing (you can set them in Shortcuts > Combat) and also Alt-Mousewheel.


Its the mouse cursor not reacting to my click and move the whole scene with system view. I always could move cursor there to be sure I dont interact with any element on the scene and rotate the scene.

Resizing is something else. Now you have to be more focused to grab a probing sphere, The grabable edges have shrinked a bit it seems, some people are not really good with that, but shorcuts are good. I think I will get used to them.

Ahh I would forgot, but someone already mentioned that. Cant see the active ship round thingy UI element with health and modules when in full screen.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2015-11-04 16:46:34 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Goliath
Tipa Riot wrote:
Looking forward to the improvements!

Two remarks, because not mentioned here:

... why did you change the placement of the dscan button to the left side? This is inconvenient for all folks who have the dscan on the left side (longer mouse distance from HUD/center). I presume most poeple have scanning stuff on the left side of the screen and overview stuff on the other.

... using both hands to rearrange probes (of a fixed formation) is a workaround but should not be mandatory. I need my other hand to operate the ship (e.g. CTRL) for targeting stuff on the overview, but even more important to hold the beer Big smile


Can't really comment on the "why", but we also added hotkeys for these buttons to mitigate any negative effects of moving the button itself. They are mappable in the Shortcuts > Combat menu.

EDIT: Whoops, submitted too fast!

To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2015-11-04 16:49:44 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Quote:
3. Do you mean probe sphere? We are aware of an issue with picking when the probe sphere is near the edge. In the meantime, give the new ways of resizing that we added a try! We put in bindable hotkeys for resizing (you can set them in Shortcuts > Combat) and also Alt-Mousewheel.


Its the mouse cursor not reacting to my click and move the whole scene with system view. I always could move cursor there to be sure I dont interact with any element on the scene and rotate the scene.

Resizing is something else. Now you have to be more focused to grab a probing sphere, The grabable edges have shrinked a bit it seems, some people are not really good with that, but shorcuts are good. I think I will get used to them.


I don't have this experience at all - can rotate/pan the map with LMB/RMB even up to the last pixel in the window at the side. Do you play with any UI scaling options, or anything else out of the ordinary?

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

5pitf1re
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2015-11-04 16:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: 5pitf1re
This has probably been reported before but the new windows don't seem to remember the last focused window choice.

That means, when I have both the DScan and scanning windows stacked into the same window and I activate or switch to the DScan window it will automatically switch to the scanning window when I jump through a gate.

This behavior is rather annoying since I have to get back to the DScan window every time.
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#35 - 2015-11-04 16:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Quote:
To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case.


Try scanning a Superior Sleeper Cache in a Stratios - even with Sisters Core Probe Launcher/Probes and all of the scanning array midslot modules in. You will have to move individual probes in the pinpoint formation around in order to get to 100%. Basically moving the entire probe formation in/out, and then probably a few individual probes around to get from like 99.5% to 100%.

And I agree, that although I don't mind having the SHIFT/CTRL/ALT keys to make finding the probe adjustments easier, I want to be able to do it all with my mouse, since there's a lot of muscle memory to snapping around my view vertically/horizontally on the solar system map, and dragging and resizing probes. It seems less efficient to have to press SHIFT/CTRL/ALT to adjust the probes. Having the mouse wheel isn't bad, but you still have to hold ALT to use it which doubles your APM.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-11-04 16:56:34 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case.

No no, you got me wrong, just to make sure there is no need at any time to press a modifier key for the operation of the whole formation, i.e. moving it around the map (and grabbing in the first place), resizing the whole formation, switch formation (pinpoint -> custom -> pinpoint).

I'm my own NPC alt.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#37 - 2015-11-04 17:00:41 UTC
Steijn wrote:
the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo.


Hell yea
Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#38 - 2015-11-04 17:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
The new scanning map is not an improvement on the old map, but many steps backwards. I've been saying the same things about the new map for over a year but have seen little to no improvements. First and foremost, the new scanning interface is significantly less useful for combat scanning than the old map. All of the feedback I've seen for the new scanning map so far seems to be written by people who do not do combat scanning but who casually scan a few data/relic sites here and there, and sure, the new scanning interface is fine for that. But for any type of intensive scanning, no, the new scanning interface is a waste of resources and multiple steps backwards from the old scanning map. Some reasons include:

1) The old scanning interface gave different icons for different signatures on the map. Different types of structures had different icons on the solar system, making it very easy to tell what was a player ship, what was a research lab, what was a POS gun, and what was a drone. The new map completely loses that functionality and instead displays all signatures—from cosmic sigs to player ships to structures to drones—with green dots, making it much harder to quickly sort through a cluster of signatures. (The one thing here I do appreciate is that in long lists of signatures in a cluster the new solar system map gives you a sidebar for scrolling through the list—this should be implemented to the old map.) The old map also had a way of “Stacking” a cluster of signatures in such a way that it was easy to tell what was a cluster of a dozen signatures (e.g. ships or structures) versus what was a single entity. On the new map we just see green dots that communicate no useful information unless we hover over them one by one.

2) Lag. The new scanning map is significantly more laggy and less responsive than the old solar system map. This is a huge issue both for people who run EVE on older computers as well as for combat scanning where time counts for everything. The lag kicks in especially when you pan or move the camera around to see different angles, which is something you do very quickly when combat scanning and the new map doesn't seem to like fast movements.

3) The font on the scanning window is significantly harder for me to read than the old scanning window, especially when there are dozens of signatures. The white font on green background on the past window is easier to quickly read than the white font on black that the new scanning window has.

4) Lots of people have points this out, but the scanning and dscan windows lack the same transparency levels that other windows have in EVE. They are much darker and less transparent.

5) Moving the probes is now more difficult. I don't really know why, but it seems as if icons on the map get in the way of the probe movement arrows more than on the old map. This is also an issue of lag and responsiveness it seems.
Zosius
Epicentre Syndicate
The Singularity.
#39 - 2015-11-04 17:10:37 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Zosius wrote:
Can you please return d-scan checkbox for active overview. It's very unproductive to select from drop down menu if i want to do a single scan with everything included


Yeah that got mentioned elsewhere. Defect is in :)


thanks. Would it also be possible to have signatures standout more? This dark theme takes a lot of focus to spot signature. especially smaller ships
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#40 - 2015-11-04 17:13:21 UTC
Not sure if this is known issue, but if you enable the new map and scanning interfaces, probes will work on the new map, but if you use F10 they are not usable on the classic map. I assume you'd have to disable the new feature and reload to get it working again?

This is what the probes look like on the classic map when this happens: http://i.imgur.com/mfx23YV.png

Logged EBR-53607.