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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

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Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#761 - 2015-08-14 04:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Ok, so I won't pretend to really understand what's going on here as I don't care much for Sov and have been out of game for the last 6 months. After reading the first page though and seeing how everyone was so tired of old sov and don't like new sov etc., etc. Can't we just drop sov as a thing?

I understand some people want to put their name on things so fine, let the entity with the most online towers in the system have their name on it or some sort of grading systems like 3 points for a large, 2 for med and 1 for small tower, highest points gets to plant the flag. Allow people to build supers at any tower with the capability of doing so whether you hold sov or not, if the residents don't like it let THEM handle it, not the game mechanics. Allow conquered stations to have their access restricted by the owner. Otherwise null sec is effectively just low sec without gate/station guns and with allowances for bubbles/bombs and the like and distinctly lacking in FW plexes. EDIT: By all means include any other null sec mechanics other than sov I may have missed the list was not necessarily exhaustive.

Whether structure bashing or PVE content is required for the maintenance of sov and while sov is a big deal the game will feel like a second job because no matter what the requirement is, the simple act of REQUIRING it will make people not want to continue in the long term. You may enjoy plexing or you may enjoy orbiting a gate if you're very strange but when you are forced to do it, it loses its appeal. If you normally PVE in null and log in feeling like you want to pick a fight tonight nothing is going to make you want to log off more than your CEO threatening to boot you from corp if you don't get into the plex op because if you go out looking for trouble you might cost the alliance sov. (Trust me something like this was attempted when I was in Heretic Army which I will not go into detail on here but it resulted in the ousting of the CEO among other things). Conversely players should not be worried that their larger scale operation might be threatened if they have to take a night off.

I could be way off base here because as I said I've been away but this is just how the situation is striking me at first impressions. Never forget that the primary drive for people to log in is the content created by alliance FCs, not by forcing people to log in every day for one purpose or another. CCPs job is to throw toys into the sandbox now and then, not to tell us which toys have a minimum usage quota. The effort to keep people subscribed by forcing them to do X activity WILL get old very fast, people need to be able to log in to do what they feel like doing or they will simply lose interest.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#762 - 2015-08-14 04:56:10 UTC
I've been eating a lot of popcorn and drinking lots of whine lately.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#763 - 2015-08-14 05:36:32 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I understand some people want to put their name on things so fine, let the entity with the most online towers in the system have their name on it

Heh heh, this sounds pretty good, better go F&I that

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#764 - 2015-08-14 05:40:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
I understand some people want to put their name on things so fine, let the entity with the most online towers in the system have their name on it

Heh heh, this sounds pretty good, better go F&I that


Sounds like pre-Dominion Sov...
Artistul
Meet The Fockers
#765 - 2015-08-14 08:12:01 UTC
It was "Let's blow some sh*t up !"

Now it's "Let's run around like headless chickens"

Destruction turned into Tom & Jerry chasing. It's just sad.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#766 - 2015-08-14 09:07:44 UTC
Norris Leet wrote:
Xan Auditore wrote:
alpha36 wrote:
Jynx Garza wrote:
I have played this game off and on for years i recently came back and was getting ready to quit again then this Agis sov came into play and i like it it forces more fights for pvp and my small group can take and hold a sov with out having to have a blob of caps i notice the ones complain the most are the large alliances with systems they are not even occupying as a seasoned player of eve i believe this is one of the best additions to eve the new sov allows smaller alliances to move into null sec capture and hold space and give me more stuff to do

Thank you for this awesome addition to game play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Haha what. You dont fight you run away and you havent taken any sov and never will. Is this real life?

You guys literally just helped the Imperium do a sov transfer by grinding that TNT constellation, how can people be this dumb??


This article is for player feedback. It's turning into a CFC tear-bath. Why you guys so mad?


This coming from the alliance that highlights the problems best. We show up in capitals, immediately after we leave you guys bring out 30 interceptors to roam Deklein. All of your Sov capture events so far have been in frigates/interceptors.


meh, sad goon

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Azarath NazGhoul
Doomheim
#767 - 2015-08-14 13:58:31 UTC
It’s horrible for empire builders and we(i) said so before, everyone who played in NULL could predict the outcome of this.

I believe this work well for people who don’t want to work to create/maintain alliances, this system give them an option to go out and harass the big guys without committing anything (captors) But even for them this is just a short term thing. If the big guys would give up the space (as some seem to be so keen on) what would be left then?
For us Vets the system is pointless, our high skilled characters are no use, we have to play 24/7 just to “not” fight and we cant even launch an major deployment since we have to stay close to our systems.

CCP once again seem to have lost direction again, it seems like design decision is made for a game they don’t have.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#768 - 2015-08-14 13:58:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
When were you in SMA, did you leave to join moa's crusade?


A few months ago. I'm in WHs now. I was tired of being an afk ratter/F1 monkey carebear (ie, the only thing sov null is good for)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#769 - 2015-08-14 14:25:07 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
When were you in SMA, did you leave to join moa's crusade?


A few months ago. I'm in WHs now. I was tired of being an afk ratter/F1 monkey carebear (ie, the only thing sov null is good for)

I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.

Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.


Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#770 - 2015-08-14 14:29:44 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
This is based on my alliance's experience in Vale of the Silent. Aegis Sov requires tedious PVE grinding. It requires the defenders to stand post for hours in order to respond to someone who will most likely run away and avoid a fight, if you actually respond. The balance is off, since the offense does not really have to commit anything to the fight in order to threaten space.

Grinding up defense indexes is a tedious activity. Eve players consistently complain about the boring monotony of running anomalies and mining for hours on end, but that is exactly what Aegis Sov requires. My alliance now has mandatory fleets for ratting and mining. This has been very bad for morale and has resulted in decreased numbers in corp chat and on comms. Part of this may be bitter vets being perverse: some of the same people who refuse to join mandatory ratting or mining fleets are the same folks who complained about mandatory structure grinding fleets in the past.

Actual fighting under Aegis Sov thus far has been limited to the normal small gang skirmishes against the usual suspects (e.g. good PVPers like Chessur visiting through wormholes). These are the same fights we would have had before. Almost none of these fights were caused by Entosis, or even the threat of Entosis. We would have gone out to fight these people anyway, because home defense fleets are fun.

There has also been a certain amount of chasing away trollceptors - who are not looking to get into a fight or even provoke a fight. They burn off at a high rate of speed as soon as you respond.

In one case, someone did actually Entosis something to the point that nodes spawned. No fight came of this, since the hostiles never came back. It just turned into a waste of time as we went around looking for the nodes and turning them off without any opposition.

If someone made a real push for another person's space, brute force and numbers would win the day. Aegis Sov comes down to knowledge of game mechanics and N+1, just as with Dominion Sov. I do not really have a problem with that.

In a fight between two evenly-matched groups, however, content denial is still the best strategy for contesting sovereignty (just as it was with Dominion Sov). Repeated harassment, followed by blue-balling, followed my more harassment, until they just stop logging in is the order of the day. Harass the defenders by using an Entosis link somewhere in their space. In an Interceptor, you can have an alt do this while you do something else. If they respond, burn off at high speed. You literally cannot lose your interceptor if you are paying attention. If they do not respond, then you just caused them an obnoxious number of nodes to spawn. They are forced to commit several times the effort now, or risk losing something nice. If you give them the satisfaction of a fight, you are doing it wrong.

That is why I believe Aegis Sov is a failure thus far, because it does not lead to more fights.


Grinding up defense indexes is a tedious activity. Eve players consistently complain about the boring monotony of running anomalies and mining for hours on end, but that is exactly what Aegis Sov requires. My alliance now has mandatory fleets for ratting and mining.


Or you could interact with those types that like that sort of thing and come to an agreement that they do said activities and you provide the pew pew if/when others come to shoot them.

Cant blame CCP for your unwillingness to adapt.

And CCP cannot do anything to stop pvp'rs running from fights where they may incur a loss.

One thing I have learned about Eve. Allot of pvp'rs talk about being willing to pvp. But they leave out the part about only doing it when the win is 100% in their favor.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#771 - 2015-08-14 14:50:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.

Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.


Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready


Transferring sov to someone you are set blue to hardly counts as giving up space.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#772 - 2015-08-14 15:15:34 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.

Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.


Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready


Transferring sov to someone you are set blue to hardly counts as giving up space.

Sure it does. It means I don't get those obnoxious notifications for those systems anymore.
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#773 - 2015-08-14 15:38:38 UTC
I can say that it's been the least active month and a half. I know the changes are still in development and the new structures will change the quality of life, probably, but our alliance half dropped to half its numbers. There are other reasons involved with that but they are still dropping. We rent and have only seen a few roaming gangs since early July. It's not terrible, and working to keep your sov is fine. I feel like everyone is looking at the short term and not what the long term changes will happen with all the adjustments to sov.
Pebble cruncher
Drunken Space Moose
#774 - 2015-08-14 17:17:59 UTC
Outside of the little buzz of the first week, it is now very quiet.

As others mention there is now more attention put into grinding indexes to limit trolls and really avoid dealing with defense node hunt. With tweaking that part could be more bearable.

Defenders
- Raising the indexes needs relaxing. Industry first. Add PI activity or simply cut back the m3 requirements to put them at par with military.
- Index does not maintain themselves very long. Say you would want to raise your ADM to 6 for a long weekend in another region to pew, you might currently come back with a much affected ADM. The higher it is, the longer it could take to go back down. So there is an added bonus in getting it to 6.

Attackers
- Some might have fun trolling but where are the fights?
- Majority of fights are from "classic" sources (normal roam, WH)

If I summarize my experience and thoughts on the future (even if we get tweaks);
1- Grind indexes to make the new sov system somewhat bearable.
2- Work everyday to keep them up or else the trollcepter under the bed will get you.
3- Seems to be limited inclination to relax fatigue... maybe on JB but whatch out for the unbearable power projection.
4- We wish that you do all your activities and stay in null but we will allow people to destroy your bases... but it's easy if you want to address that, simply spread your stuff all over, seed multiple citadels, keep only 2-3 ships and the rest in ISK. Basically live in your suitcases.

Ohh you can leave the house and enjoy yourself..... no not really.

Nullsec quality of life is being reduced every change I see and all I hear is CCP saying it's exactly what they designed. If it would at least generate more fights I would be fine with it cause we would get pew... But no. it's more work and less fun.

I want an equation that increases the fun factor. The answer cannot be; go live in lowsec if you don't like where it's going. At one point you will find nobody willing to live in nullsec. What then? I hope we don't have to reach that point cause I genuingly love this game...
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#775 - 2015-08-14 22:23:01 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

Sure it does. It means I don't get those obnoxious notifications for those systems anymore.


http://i.imgur.com/qE8ynuT.gifv
Kieron VonDeux
#776 - 2015-08-15 04:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Artistul wrote:
It was "Let's blow some sh*t up !"

Now it's "Let's run around like headless chickens"

Destruction turned into Tom & Jerry chasing. It's just sad.



Too many complained about the HP grind and Super Cap dominance in Dominion Sov.
Well, you can't please everyone can you.

I think more complained about Dominion Sov than are complaining Aegis Sov though.

I still remember all the focus groups at the last several Fan Fests complaining about Dom Sov.
One of the biggest issues was the focus on Supers.

Well they don't matter so much in Sov warfare now do they.

It is interesting that its a vocal few that are complaining so much about Aegis Sov.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#777 - 2015-08-15 05:43:41 UTC
It's always about the structures

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#778 - 2015-08-15 10:04:08 UTC
Just 2 ideas, FWIW:

1. Most annoying thing about trollceptors seems to be that while they're easily countered, they're hard to kill. Chasing them off is way less fun than blapping them. Biggest issue seems not their speed while on-grid (many ships can go 4-5 km/s or more), but them being uncatchable (fast align + bubble immunity) once they're able to warp off. So yeah, making entosis links unfittable on interdiction-nullified ships makes sense. Near-zero risk trolling seems off. You should at least be able to catch and kill un-tanked frigates by camping gates...


2. Defending (un-entosing) seems a boring chore. So make it easier and worthwhile:

- Any ship of defending alliance can un-entose without needing an entosis link. If anyone's close by, just get in range of the thing being attacked and it works. Limited just to the first attack, not the capture event. If this makes it too easy to defend, tweak things to re-balance (e.g. decreasing the time for the attacker vs. the defender)

- Defending gives you loyalty points. Player-alliance loyalty points. Each alliance can decide what you get in exchange for these LPs (ISK being the easiest reward).

Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. In FW, everybody can easily give a hand in defending systems (out of main system battles) because they just need to spend some time in whatever ship they're in at the moment (PVP's slow today? ok, I'll de-plex a bit while I'm waiting for fights) and they get a reward for doing so.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kieron VonDeux
#779 - 2015-08-15 23:53:51 UTC
If is too hard to have single players Entosis Sov in defense or a group of players Entosis Command Nodes due to a failed defense, you might be trying to hold too much space.

If only POS repping had been so easy after a successful defense.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#780 - 2015-08-16 04:26:46 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works.

Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?