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That is the very point of it. You are required to allow opponents in your neighborhood to establish themselves, live and be a content provider to you as you are to them.

The problem that I see, that stems from the pre-Aegis-Sov/pre Phoebe-Jump-mechanics spoiling, is that people still cling to that. People still want to hold vast areas of space just for the sake of it. People also still want these gigantic fights. There was an overwhelming majority of participants from fights like B-R, HED-GP, Asakai, 6VDT, the Revenant promo not-kill in Black Rise and other instances who used the Soul Crushing Tidi meme/slogan after every single of these instances, indicating how they are not happy with this. Yet people still cling to the very same thing.
Another problem I see with opponents in your neighborhood is that it's either "Blue them" or "Prepare for invasion". There is no middleground for EVE players. There is no "We do not like you, but if you stay in Delve and do not bother our sov in Querious we won't bother your sov in Delve. Let's instead have a good time and some roaming fights or drops here and there." or "Let's agree on these and these systems/constellations as a kind of thunderdome to have some sov skirmishes but leave the rest alone and just roam here and there." This seems to be outright impossible from my experience. And I find this ridiculous, in particular as some people yesterday suggested that alliances should join FW and use that combat system as kind of arena to undertake fights. Under the current mechanics, you cannot hold on too much sov if you are not big enough. So why bother with taking over sov from people several regions away or outside your permanent sphere of influence? To screw people over, to have some random crap to do. That's unimaginative and childish.

For the rest, I agree wholeheartedly with Jayne Fillon's remarks in post #2.

Perhaps you should spend some time addressing the fact that your "Q&A session" didn't leave people with the feeling that you're actually listening to them.

So, obviously the Problem is on multiple levels - but i think it comes most down to a Risk/Reward misbalance and in the end having no reason to want Sov (=having to reason to go to war).

Like right now the incentives i see for taking Sov is:

* Being able to Build Supercapitals
* Rent it out as Alliance Level Income
* Make Money (individual income)

To live in Sov Null you, by design, have to put a lot of stuff and assets at risk.

As stated in the discussion, and "you" from CCP collectively answering with Silence and Confusion, in contrast to that risk you can get better or equal rewards with taking much much lower risk, e.g. with Faction Warfare or Highsec Incursions.

So in short, unless you want to Build Supercapitals (which lack any real purpose right now, but thats another topic but we have to mention this as a fact) theres better options to Make Money with having to take way less Risks.

Additionally, NPC Nullsec, due to where it exists geographically, gives people even another way to dodge the risk of Sov Nullsec while still allowing them gain effective control over huge parts - or even complete Sov Nullsec Regions.


Therefor i propose the Following:

Restructure Gates / Introduce more Smuggler Gates with shifting the Gate connections of every NPC Nullsec Constellation.
NPC Nullsec should really be "more dangerous Lowsec" so it should only exist at the Entry Points of Nullsec Regions and not as Islands in the middle of them, or the whole Region should be NPC Space (and even then they should have direct Empire Borders). An example of how it could look like in PureBlind: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind/YS-GOP,S4GH-I,0A-73B
Then, remove ALL direct Highsec / Nullsec Gate-Connections and add a bunch of new Smuggler Gates to the NPC Constellations, connecting them with more remote Nullsec Regions that geographically lie behind them. Taking Pure Blind as an example again: Have NPC Pure Blind have Smuggler Stargates directly to Fade, Deklein, Branch, Tenal, Venal, Tribute.

Note that PureBlind here is just a sole example and this procedure should then be applied to ALL NPC Nullsec.

Additionally, if you would want to make more incentives for random people to just enter null you could make NPC Nullsec (at least partly) FW-Capable. Lore wise you could choose Pirate Faction that borders to an Empire Faction and than gets "hired" by its opposing faction, if you dont want to have the Pirate Factions as FW entities on their own and than introduce an FW-LP --> Pirate LP Conversion similar to the Concord LP Conversion.

This doesnt really give more incentive to actually take sov, but lowers the viablity of controlling Sov Nullsec from NPC Space, creating crowded chokepoints.

To give Sov Nullsec more Incentive:
* Tie the Moon Harvesting Array to sov.
* Make (at least r32/r64) moons deplete and spawn somewhere random, with some Minerals being EXCLUSIVE in Sov Null (wormhole, after all, got this incentive by being the only place you can farm T3s - and if one Entity Holds all of WHSpace you have to give T3s the Tech-Treatment anyway)
* Remove Fatigue from JBs (this gives an incetive to /attack/ empires aswell as if you take a few system you can effectively create a bridgehead into enemy territory)
* Lower Fatigue Generation in your own Sov

then put it behind another region of NPC Space, like Tusker Shithole

While it doesnt happen often, but sometimes I want to take part in a blackops drop after strategic ops (i.e. dread/carrier ride or titan bridge) or vice versa - and it's where fatigue kicks in. I think the idea of ship-based timer is not immediately bad, and you should give it a try. It allows for pony-express, but it's not a big difference from caches of ships that are available now - so should not break everything. You could set an experiment, and implement ship-based fatigue for blackops, while other jumps stay character-based.


Holding sov gives you something useful? God forbid!
Seriously - yes, by all means. Of course dont tie it directly to alliance capital, make some fancy navigation structures.
And un-nerf cyno-jammers. Sov holder should be able to block all capships, no matter if they come via cyno or through gates. I remember ye olde battles for cyno-jammers and they were freaking fun.


Jump range rigs.
This one is not really about fatigue, but rather about Jump Drive Calibration V. Fleetcoms these days are very picky and often say "JDC V or GTFO". Frustrating for newer players.


It means my home region should be valuable enough for me to fight for it, and for my enemy - to invade it.
Looks like mutually exclusive requirements, because if everyone have good home regions, why would they invade anywhere? Yet, there are some options, but I'm not going for them, as it's way off-topic.


Yes, the Rorqual, geez.

1&2: yea; as it is the range is too small for the ppl living in deep nul, or some of the npc 0.0;
when you first introduced "fatigue" the was one very good proposition about keeping the range as it was but applying fatigue depending on the distance jumped, with the fatigue increasing exponentially for every added ly after 5lys;
ex:
you jump 5ly you get "some" amount of fatigue, you choose to jump 7lys you get 2xsome fatigue, you jump 10ly you get 3x or 4x...you get the ideea;
at least with this last proposition ppl will have to make choices, and the jump skills will once again matter, plus will alow moving into deep null without the need to be blue to every sov holder from the empire border to your home;
p.s: give jfs back the range before nerf

3. no; ppl will just buy more ships

4.

5. see 1

6. you need to first rebalance caps/supercaps

7. some fatigue is good, but you overdid it, so yea

8. if this is the only way to get my carrier back to 10ly jump range, i agree; also, boost the jf range to prenerf value

9. no

10. local content-= region you live+the space from empire border to your home, mostlly

And?


And?

Right now you can do almost the same. Make a cache of ships at the midpoint and use taxi ceptors to get there.
You dont see this happening, for a number of reasons:
1. no-one wants to manage that logistics;
2. you cannot make cache of motherships and titans, and without their backup capital fleet can be quickly reduced to capital scrap heap;
3. capital ships are useless anyway.

Heres my feedback as CEO of my corporation Nocturnal Romance. Who are a small lowsec corp based on capital warfare, we do not travel around EVE, we pvp within Placid and Syndicate only. We have zero interest in sov.

As a Corporation we are looking for fights with larger ships, we WANT to fight Battleships, capitals and supers. We generally find frigate pvp and cruiser pvp boring. We will do this occasionally but it is not our preferred playstyle. We refused to fly ishtars entirely the entire time they were OP.

- Jump Range Nerf - It has cut our previous hunting grounds into a quarter that it used to be. Resulting in no alliances in immediate range of us with a capital force to be used. Only recently(the last month) has an alliance Snuffbox moved their capitals and supers into the area to fight - This has provided some activity within our corp again because we had stagnated and got bored because of lack of content. Once Snuffbox stop fighting we will fall back into this inactivity. I also do not like the fact that all capitals now have the same jump ranges. Plus allow carriers to jump further than titans again etc please.

- Jump Fatigue Timers - Combined with the jump range nerf, if we wish to gain access to the other 3/4 of our old hunting grounds we need to make at least one jump which gives us an hour timer. The corp is generally active for 2-3 hours a night. This means we can push our fatigue timer up to 16 hours but we cannot sit around and wait out timers while we play as we simply do not have the time. We are a casual corp. This means that at most we can do 5-6 Jumps a night. What does this mean? It means that we will not hotdrop random ships, we will not drop smaller groups to bait for fights either unless we know it is almost guaranteed. Why? Because it simply isnt worth the fatigue if we can only do 5-6 jumps a night. What does this do for? Well we sit around and stagnate, we have less content and overtime we have less activity and less accounts subbed or wanting to play.

- The jump range and the fatigue combined is very harsh, i honestly believe giving back one or the other would help the problem somewhat. If you gave the ships their old ranges back we would be able to pvp more on a nightly basis and have more targets, and we would not need to do the initial jump to get to the other side of the region(or even 7 jumps away) effectively giving us one more jump a night. The Fatigue would still stop people travelling across the galaxy at rapid speeds but it would also stop the small spheres of jump range where alliances have the superior uncontested capital force in the area.

- Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue - I see changes to benefit people who own sov as unfair if i am honest. I believe the system is too harsh for everyone involved and it would be totally unjustified to reduce fatigue for the 0.0 players and leave the lowsec people with the current conditions.

- Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops - I do not agree with this. There should not be a need to have a different mode. There are better ways to go about this than just adding more modes for each ship. For example you could give a massive reduction in jump fatigue for jumping back to a cyno you have previously been through. Thus moving ships back and force becomes alot easier and you will also now have a reason to defend your cyno rather than using a disposable t1 frigate. If coupled with a jump range increase (at least for carriers) moving regions would still be a slow process that cannot be done overnight but moving your hanger would also now be a viable option.

- Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs) - Please do not do this! The skill will just become a must have that you are required to have or stay docked, a bit like JDC 5 now, we need less of these skills. Drugs sound a bit weird, sideaffects etc making your fleet inefficient? Once again all the drug skills would likely become must haves, I think jump fatigue the mechanic needs to be address and modified not have bandages and fixes applied to it through other ingame items.

- Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based - If you do this we will just buy more capitals, this will completely fix our issue of local capital warfare being too restrictive. I am not sure how this will work with larger entities, i can see it would allow groups to cyno across eve to another stash of capitals. I do not see this as a huge issue as it would still limit the ability for super and titans to get around easily as i doubt many people have a stash of these for switching to to save on fatigue.

- What does local-content mean to you? - Local content to NOC is the ability to fight within at least our local region, due to jump fatigue we cannot even begin to reach the other areas of our region. We are a pvp corp, we play this game for pvp, we have no interest in owning structures, sov or anything else. We pvp for the sake of it, if we have a fight and come out isk inefficient we do not care, isk is there for us to generate pvp content nothing more.

- As far as i am concerned jump fatigue was put into this game to limit the ability to move capital and super fleets across eve at rapid speeds. However i feel it has done more than that and limited the ability for alliances that even live in the region next door to fight each other due to fatigue timers and capitals being out of range. It has also made moving ships with capitals or even the capitals themselves to other regions even over the course of a few days to a week painfully boring and tedious. Therefore..

Jump Fatigue sounded like a terrible idea to most of us from the beginning, we arranged and adapted, it's still terrible, but it wasn't actually as terrible as we all thought.

Since eveyone is posting their opinions here, here is mine:

It should be difficult to move your giant cap fleet instead of just beeing boring.
It might surprise some of you guys, but - time consuming and boring =/= difficult

Some suggestions:
Examples for difficulty might be that you cant move as far and you can't carry that much fuel. 5 Light Years range is a joke, combine that with a fuel bay that has enough fuel for lets say 10-15 light years and you can think how difficult it would be to move a 500 man cap fleet around the galaxy.
You would need to have fuel caches everywhere or have Jump Freighters travel with you. So, risk vs. reward, also preparation vs. reward.
A well prepared alliance could do so, rewarding dedication seems fair to me.
People who do not prepare, do not deserve to Win.

The line between disorder and order lies in logistics.’ - Sun Tzu

My ideas would be:
- Remove jump fatigue from carriers and dreadnaughts for everyone, lowsec, NPC-Null, Sov-Holders and their Guests/Renters
- Keep jump fatigue for Black Ops, Jump Freighters, Rorquals and Supercaps everywhere.
- Remove jump fatigue from Jump Bridges your alliance owns and which are not connecting two regions.
- Remove fatigue from BlackOps Bridges and Titan Bridges which start and end within in your own sov space. if one is not within your own sov, you get normal fatigue
- All jumps from one region to another generate normal fatigue. (not gate jumps ofc)
- Black Ops and Titans jump drives still generate fatigue even in your own space.
- Make the fuel bay of carriers and dreads, a lot smaller, so they can travel max 2-3 jumps without refuelling.
- Create a second fuel bay which can only hold strontium
- Keep the reactivation timer, depending on the range you jumped (also for jump bridges of all kinds)

Effects:
- This would lower the duration of Capital fleets travelling around (dreads and carriers) if you are well prepared. But since you have to dock often and need to refuel often, it wouldn't be a "Win button".
- Alliances with scouts and spys would easily see them coming and have time to prepare themselves.
- Less annoying Fozziesov
- Reward preparation and dedication

The point of "no-fatigue-in-your-sov" is basically fozziesov. It is far from fun currently, but if you could use yur Jump Bridges properly and bridge people to the scene, there might be fights happening and trolls are fended off.

Thoric Frosthammer from CSM described it as (no quote): The levers for your TV, Shower, Lights and Climate are down in the Hotel Lobby where evryone can turn them on and off as they like and to keep people from abusing your romms services you have to stand down there and punch away everyone coming.
To stay with the hotel metaphor, with my proposed changes you would still have to do that, but then you wouldn't need to take the stairs, you'd have the express lift to fend off the attackers.

Your thoughts are crap. Nobody told CCP: do this and that; do it this way. CCP preferred the worst approach.