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Dev Blog: Fleet Warp Changes - Coming in August Release

First post
Author
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-06-24 15:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
In a continued effort to make sure that the skill of every member of your fleet counts towards the fight, we are making changes to fleet warp mechanics. We've already had a torrent of feedback, and today CCP Larrikin has a dev blog with more details on what is changing.

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro

CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2015-06-24 16:02:35 UTC
Reserved for future Q&A =)

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-06-24 16:09:44 UTC
I like the addition of broadcasting a bookmark, not so sure it needs a delay (unless that's just unavoidable). Will have to see it in action.
Mizhir
Higher Than Everest
Hazardous Company
#4 - 2015-06-24 16:10:27 UTC
Quote:
After feedback and discussion, weโ€™ve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To:

Mission locations
Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)
Fleet members
Along with all existing broadcastable items


Good call.

โค๏ธ๏ธ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ’™๐Ÿ’œ

Mizhir
Higher Than Everest
Hazardous Company
#5 - 2015-06-24 16:11:12 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I like the addition of broadcasting a bookmark, not so sure it needs a delay (unless that's just unavoidable). Will have to see it in action.


If there wasn't any delay it would just surpass the effect of these changes.

โค๏ธ๏ธ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ’™๐Ÿ’œ

Jyn Artan
#6 - 2015-06-24 16:12:16 UTC
The ability to broadcast additional items is a good development.

Question

If you have different corps in a fleet how does the bookmark broadcast work?

Can you just broadcast the location of the bookmark even if other fleet members don't have it in their bookmark list?
Rath Valent
235MeV
Waterboard Comedy Tour
#7 - 2015-06-24 16:14:13 UTC
There is already a propagation delay for corp bookmarks that seems to take from a few seconds to a minute plus, probably based on server load and other variable factors.

Has the bookmark propagation delay been embedded in code in the form of "at least x minutes/seconds"?

RV
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2015-06-24 16:16:36 UTC
You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve.
Quesa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-24 16:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Quesa
I think reverting the scan probe time back to ~40 seconds would have fixed a lot.

Instead your using magic to add special cases which not only increases the depth of difficulty for newer players but increases the headache for FCs. Special casing is BAD. If an object is warp-able, it should be warp-able for a fleet.
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2015-06-24 16:25:29 UTC
Can you address the near impossibility of catching off-grid boosters with these changes?
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-06-24 16:27:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mostlyharmlesss
Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder.

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Cleanse Serce
Les Petits Pedestres
Toilet Paper.
#12 - 2015-06-24 16:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
That's an awsome idea to force fleet members involvment !
Thank god the people which gave you early feedback called the right points.

Yes to no fleet-warps for some destination, but not without broadcast capacity.
Each and every point are still warp-to, FCs just gonna have to call ranges, time, and estimate what warps when, how etc.
Not only members are more involed but that's more job to do for FC strategicly speaking.

I think that's a good idea.
Next anchor ?

One thing though : the whole thing WILL BE spoiled if you do not work to shorten the bookmark spread over a corporation fast.
Other point : could be awsome to have alliance bookmark as well while you're at it. :)

Same question about what does mean :
Quote:
Along with all existing broadcastable items
Quesa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-06-24 16:30:19 UTC
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) making everyone fly them.


Stop bubbles (aka defensive bubbles) are those which are placed to pull a hostile fleet off of it's intended warp-to target. So you drop bubbles between a hostile fleet and your own fleet so they cannot land on top of you. He is not describing a hostile fleet bubbling another.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#14 - 2015-06-24 16:30:45 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Along with all existing broadcastable items

Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Does this mean that, if we broadcast a location (such as a scanned target), the fleet can warp via the broadcast? Or will this be limited to the aforementioned locations that were already warpable?

Or am I missing the mark entirely?
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-06-24 16:32:51 UTC
Quesa wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) making everyone fly them.


Stop bubbles (aka defensive bubbles) are those which are placed to pull a hostile fleet off of it's intended warp-to target. So you drop bubbles between a hostile fleet and your own fleet so they cannot land on top of you. He is not describing a hostile fleet bubbling another.


And that is the problem. Slippery petes are bubble immune so they can dictate the entire fight unless you land right on top of them which is now made harder.

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Steven Ellecone
Full Broadside
#16 - 2015-06-24 16:33:12 UTC
I really hope this isn't the "solution" to wormholes. Not being able to fleet warp to a wormhole is a really big deal. If your whole fleet is landing at different times it's giving a huge advantage to the side that's already established on the hole. They'll easily be able to pop a few people before logi can start getting reps up.
Please do not make this change without allowing wormholers to be able to fleet warp to a wormhole or you're going to really discourage wormhole pvp. I can see a lot of groups deciding to just sit in their POS rather than fight if they know they are going to lose a few ships at the beginning of a fight. That's enough to easily turn the tide on most 5-15 person fights. One side is going to establish control on a hole and the other side will be unwilling to fight unless they have superior numbers and firepower since they will be at a huge disadvantage without fleet warp.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-06-24 16:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Midnight Hope
"Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)"


How much of a delay will it be?
Will the broadcast allow members without the BM (in other corps) to get the BM and be able to warp?
Will there be fleet BMs (in the same manner there are corp BMs)?
Ted McManfist
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2015-06-24 16:35:57 UTC
Quote:
The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are โ€œSlippery Petesโ€. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines.

We expect these changes to give long-range fleets time to deploy countermeasures, such as stop-bubbles


Do you guys even play this game?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-06-24 16:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Awkward Pi Duolus
CCP Larrikin, thank you for taking the feedback and modifying your proposal. I believe this set will get you much closer to promoting the individual involvement you seek to promote.

You know what would make this close to perfect? Allowing fleet members to warp to a probe result. Right now, we're still stuck with the tedious and time-wasting warp to the FC alt who does the probing. If probe results will be broadcastable, it allows for individual pilot action while reducing time people are sitting on their hands.

knobber Jobbler wrote:
You could just solve the bombing problem by making them decloak each other again under 2k and put the actual skill back in being a bomber FC and pilot. It would remedy so many of the issues you're trying to solve.

Yeah? That's more about luck than any skill, since you can't navigate around what you can't see. With the current changes, the first bomber to decloak will give away the position on the others, so will require superb coordination. Which is great. And infinitely better than your silly ideas.

Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Uh what. I don't understand what you mean with stopping bubbles and slippery petes - They're bubble immune. This change will make them harder to catch(?) and thus making everyone fly them. The only counter to slippery petes are combat probing and landing right ontop of them with scrams. Y'know, the very thing you just made harder.

He meant other sniper doctrines - BS- and BC-based ones - which will be able to deploy those defensive measures.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2015-06-24 16:43:11 UTC
Seems much more agreeable to me than the earlier rendition, +1
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