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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1321 - 2015-06-15 17:20:27 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:


Nope. Now you're just dodging the real issue (wormholes) and being that guy :getout:


Wormholes operate in the same way as any other area of space when it comes to scanning stuff down with scouts. If anything WH entities should have an advantage after this change in having more experienced probing pilots per head in their organisations.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1322 - 2015-06-15 17:24:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:


Nope. Now you're just dodging the real issue (wormholes) and being that guy :getout:


Wormholes operate in the same way as any other area of space when it comes to scanning stuff down with scouts. If anything WH entities should have an advantage after this change in having more experienced probing pilots per head in their organisations.


nail on the head and it's not exactly hard these days to probe. so all people gotta do is up the scout numbers and train more probers.
Juan Mileghere
The Corporate Raiders
#1323 - 2015-06-15 17:48:19 UTC
Literally this fixes/changes nothing except adding a few cloaky alts/members to fleet to achieve the same damn thing as currently is and causes hassles for those in WH space as well as moving fleets in null-sec space. People will adapt though as always though.

Blobbing Explained
Ima Spyalt
Doomheim
#1324 - 2015-06-15 17:57:41 UTC
This change just makes what I do more tedious so much so that instead of paying for the account I'll just make some newbies do it for me and go back to what I used to do and see how many players I make leave this game. On a side note instead of Awoxing getting destroyed now its half the game you all get to suffer like us awoxers had to we adapted but still is tedious and boring.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1325 - 2015-06-15 18:12:03 UTC
Juan Mileghere wrote:
Literally this fixes/changes nothing except adding a few cloaky alts/members to fleet to achieve the same damn thing as currently is and causes hassles for those in WH space as well as moving fleets in null-sec space. People will adapt though as always though.


I'm amazed at the number of WH groups who don't use scouts much. We certainly did.

No wonder there was so much crying over recons getting dscan immunity.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#1326 - 2015-06-15 18:53:57 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
I wonder what will be considered too hard next? Logging in?


Only if CCP makes logging in take twice as long as it does now. Because that's what they're doing now with fleet warps. And it's just as stupid of an idea.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Alix Tichelman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1327 - 2015-06-15 19:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alix Tichelman
I love how all of the proponents of this idea are constantly urging us all to "make" a guy in our corp scout. Or "get a guy to" do it.... "Recruit nubs to" spend their game time LITERALLY invisible (both on grid and on KMs) during fights. No one is saying "Oh my god this new role for scout will be AMAZEBALLS! EVERYONE will be tripping over themselves to scout because it will be SO FUN." And why is that? Because it's going to be a crap, thankless, mostly doable with an alt, role that no one will want to play. The only time you get noticed is when you screw up and get decloaked, or someone else screws up and warps to you at zero. All the visibility of an OGB, the lack of KMs like logi, but without the any direct interaction between you and your fleet or the enemy fleet once the fight starts. Requires an experienced pilot to pull it off without dying, and experienced pilots are going to LOATHE doing it. In the end, FCs will simply multibox the role, because it's that or wait for someone else to step up and do it. I predict it will be used routinely as punishment for screwing up, like KP duty or hauling POS fuel.

But yeah... GREAT IDEA.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#1328 - 2015-06-15 19:32:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldn’t warp to on their own. This includes –
  • Bookmarks


    • Does this include corporation bookmarks that the person in the same corp could warp to?


    Yes. You can only fleet warp to things that any member of your fleet could warp to, no matter what corp or alliances they are a part of.



    I can have a fleet made up of just my corp mates, all have access to the corp bookmarks, all are able to warp on their own to these bookmarks and there are NO other Non-Corp fleet members

    Just to clarify this:- Can they still fleet warp?

    and if not - considering that they meet all the perquisites - why not?
    Onslaughtor
    Phoenix Naval Operations
    Phoenix Naval Systems
    #1329 - 2015-06-15 19:43:17 UTC
    So me and a bunch of friends found a possible solution to keeping the main design goal of getting people involved with fleets and a sense of personal agency, while maintaining our current level of fleet ability, AND adding in new ability in the form of sudo fleet formations.

    Current fleet warp functions are split into 2 parts.

    1
    Fleet warps as we know them now become emergency fleet warps. They can only warp to a few permanent objects such as the sun, planets, stations, and gates. This is the "No time to explain we are leaving" option for the fc and keeps that functionality alive while limiting it and allowing game play to form in the chase.

    2
    The new fleet warp mechanic is a fleet warp broadcast. This broadcast works on anything the current (pre aegis) fleetwarp can. Upon activation, everyone gets a visible broadcast saying the fc is starting a fleet warp. From there each pilot mush click on it and accept the warp at a range they choose. After some number of seconds (ten seems reasonable) the fleetwarp is initiated for everyone who signed on. After that, any fleet member may still warp to the broadcast in the fleet history.


    In this way, current functionality is preserved and the design goals are meet, while also adding new functionality. Programing my be required, o dear.

    If you agree please quote as these forums seem to bury things really quickly.
    holdmybeer
    The Conference Elite
    Safety.
    #1330 - 2015-06-15 19:55:51 UTC
    My concerns about these changes are all in high-sec.

    As someone with very low security status, it's going to be extremely tedious to be in fleet and coordinate good warp-ins on top of a target in high-sec, who are carrying my assets but don't still know it. There are problems I immediately see

    Flying in low/null sec is probably manageable, as you can sit still in space for as long as you like, without getting destroyed by NPCs if you don't warp right away as you land or right after you shoot. Sure, I could command the fleet to "warp to x in 3, 2, 1.." that's how I command them to press the undock button, but then I would need to trade all new fleet members my bookmarks, I'd have to be doing this constantly.

    As an FC I do however have a way around this: Warping my alt or other fleet members characters first to the bookmarks I want to use only so I can warp the fleet to it right after. This is the only way to keep the fleet together as it is absolutely crucial for me and my whole alliance in high-sec. I can just imagine myself explaining the mechanics to others and saying like "Oh yeah, we used to be able to warp into bookmarks before as a fleet, but now you have to fill in the role of a bookmark instead of shooting ships. Sorry bro" (In my opinion it's a horrible idea giving fleet members the role of a bookmark.)

    These changes will simply force me to do more work as FC for the fleet to be successful, since high-sec mechanics are preventing my fleet members to navigate properly on their own.

    Is this intentional, or will you have systems and ideas for high-sec, just like you have them for wormholes? I would hope that we could atleast warp into bookmarks as a fleet when in high-sec.
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1331 - 2015-06-15 20:04:15 UTC
    Iowa Banshee wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hopelesshobo wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldn’t warp to on their own. This includes –
  • Bookmarks


    • Does this include corporation bookmarks that the person in the same corp could warp to?


    Yes. You can only fleet warp to things that any member of your fleet could warp to, no matter what corp or alliances they are a part of.



    I can have a fleet made up of just my corp mates, all have access to the corp bookmarks, all are able to warp on their own to these bookmarks and there are NO other Non-Corp fleet members

    Just to clarify this:- Can they still fleet warp?

    and if not - considering that they meet all the perquisites - why not?

    Another way to say it:

    All bookmarks are invalid targets for all fleet warp situations
    Iowa Banshee
    Fenrir Vangard
    #1332 - 2015-06-15 20:23:51 UTC
    Rowells wrote:
    Iowa Banshee wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hopelesshobo wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldn’t warp to on their own. This includes –
  • Bookmarks


    • Does this include corporation bookmarks that the person in the same corp could warp to?


    Yes. You can only fleet warp to things that any member of your fleet could warp to, no matter what corp or alliances they are a part of.



    I can have a fleet made up of just my corp mates, all have access to the corp bookmarks, all are able to warp on their own to these bookmarks and there are NO other Non-Corp fleet members

    Just to clarify this:- Can they still fleet warp?

    and if not - considering that they meet all the perquisites - why not?

    Another way to say it:

    All bookmarks are invalid targets for all fleet warp situations



    As always we adapt - So the new method will be

    After scanning jump out of the Buzzard into the Domi
    Wait 10mins for the bookmarks to update
    Check that the 2 other fleet members have the bookmarks
    Announce jump to XXX at 20km
    Announce 3-2-1 Warp

    It just seems like there's a lot more needless stuff than click "warp fleet"
    kraken11 jensen
    ROOKS AND KRAKENS
    #1333 - 2015-06-15 20:26:55 UTC
    Phaade wrote:
    Senov Belis wrote:
    +1 to the "not playing anymore" list.

    All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.



    Good, one less f1 monkey.



    so everyone that click f1 is an f1 monkey. Roll
    Dun'Gal
    Myriad Contractors Inc.
    #1334 - 2015-06-15 20:41:25 UTC
    kraken11 jensen wrote:
    Phaade wrote:
    Senov Belis wrote:
    +1 to the "not playing anymore" list.

    All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.



    Good, one less f1 monkey.



    so everyone that click f1 is an f1 monkey. Roll

    yes
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #1335 - 2015-06-15 21:01:52 UTC
    Iowa Banshee wrote:



    As always we adapt - So the new method will be

    After scanning jump out of the Buzzard into the Domi
    Wait 10mins for the bookmarks to update
    Check that the 2 other fleet members have the bookmarks
    Announce jump to XXX at 20km
    Announce 3-2-1 Warp

    It just seems like there's a lot more needless stuff than click "warp fleet"






    Scan target, warp buzzard to it, warp the fleet to the buzzard.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #1336 - 2015-06-15 21:04:26 UTC
    holdmybeer wrote:
    My concerns about these changes are all in high-sec.

    As someone with very low security status, it's going to be extremely tedious to be in fleet and coordinate good warp-ins on top of a target in high-sec, who are carrying my assets but don't still know it. There are problems I immediately see

    Flying in low/null sec is probably manageable, as you can sit still in space for as long as you like, without getting destroyed by NPCs if you don't warp right away as you land or right after you shoot. Sure, I could command the fleet to "warp to x in 3, 2, 1.." that's how I command them to press the undock button, but then I would need to trade all new fleet members my bookmarks, I'd have to be doing this constantly.

    As an FC I do however have a way around this: Warping my alt or other fleet members characters first to the bookmarks I want to use only so I can warp the fleet to it right after. This is the only way to keep the fleet together as it is absolutely crucial for me and my whole alliance in high-sec. I can just imagine myself explaining the mechanics to others and saying like "Oh yeah, we used to be able to warp into bookmarks before as a fleet, but now you have to fill in the role of a bookmark instead of shooting ships. Sorry bro" (In my opinion it's a horrible idea giving fleet members the role of a bookmark.)

    These changes will simply force me to do more work as FC for the fleet to be successful, since high-sec mechanics are preventing my fleet members to navigate properly on their own.

    Is this intentional, or will you have systems and ideas for high-sec, just like you have them for wormholes? I would hope that we could atleast warp into bookmarks as a fleet when in high-sec.


    In terms of ganking nothing changes. Everyone undocks, warp to insta-undock safe, fleet warp to ship scanner guy, gank.
    Zappity
    New Eden Tank Testing Services
    #1337 - 2015-06-15 21:07:03 UTC
    Just increase combat probe scan time and slow down fleet warp speed. Leave the usefulness of the feature alone.

    Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
    Shadowforge Dawkins
    Un.Reasonable
    #1338 - 2015-06-15 21:08:53 UTC
    Onslaughtor wrote:
    So me and a bunch of friends found a possible solution to keeping the main design goal of getting people involved with fleets and a sense of personal agency, while maintaining our current level of fleet ability, AND adding in new ability in the form of sudo fleet formations.

    Current fleet warp functions are split into 2 parts.

    1
    Fleet warps as we know them now become emergency fleet warps. They can only warp to a few permanent objects such as the sun, planets, stations, and gates. This is the "No time to explain we are leaving" option for the fc and keeps that functionality alive while limiting it and allowing game play to form in the chase.

    2
    The new fleet warp mechanic is a fleet warp broadcast. This broadcast works on anything the current (pre aegis) fleetwarp can. Upon activation, everyone gets a visible broadcast saying the fc is starting a fleet warp. From there each pilot mush click on it and accept the warp at a range they choose. After some number of seconds (ten seems reasonable) the fleetwarp is initiated for everyone who signed on. After that, any fleet member may still warp to the broadcast in the fleet history.


    In this way, current functionality is preserved and the design goals are meet, while also adding new functionality. Programing my be required, o dear.

    If you agree please quote as these forums seem to bury things really quickly.


    While this seems viable on paper... however I foresee ungodly lag spikes coming from it. Imagine a fleet of 500 people getting that same broadcast and having to click on it, couldn't tell you. As for Wormhole space, not going to fly. If our target can align in 15 seconds we just lost him due to the warp time being another 10 seconds out of warp waiting on the fleet warp.

    I believe it would be best suited to reduce fleet warp to squads at the most. possibly let wings as well.
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #1339 - 2015-06-15 21:12:39 UTC
    kraken11 jensen wrote:
    Phaade wrote:
    Senov Belis wrote:
    +1 to the "not playing anymore" list.

    All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.



    Good, one less f1 monkey.



    so everyone that click f1 is an f1 monkey. Roll

    How does one 'click' F1?
    stoicfaux
    #1340 - 2015-06-15 21:29:08 UTC
    Rowells wrote:
    kraken11 jensen wrote:
    Phaade wrote:
    Senov Belis wrote:
    +1 to the "not playing anymore" list.

    All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.



    Good, one less f1 monkey.



    so everyone that click f1 is an f1 monkey. Roll

    How does one 'click' F1?

    Mechanical keyboard? Chorded? Pedantic?

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.