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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1301 - 2015-06-15 12:08:12 UTC
Solecist Punk wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
Solecist Punk wrote:
For a proper fleet of -10, who does more than be afk in station most of the time, this change is game breaking. You do not seem to have understanding of that, which is fine, but stop assuming you know better when you clearly don't.

I was -10 for 6 years (2009-2015) and CEO of a smallscale pirate corporation for several years and I don't agree with you.

Especially -10s and WH people are skilled enough to adapt quickly and benefit from their higher overall fleet movement and independent member activity compared to fleets of larger 0.0 groups who greatly rely on the FC and his commands.

This change will give smaller groups of skilled players an edge over large pulks of F1 drones and that alone makes it a good change. That it will lead to more important scout-roles even in larger fleets, offering people with low SP but high softskills jobs they can excel in instead of fitting meta-guns to a level III skilled BS hull just to add "more dps" to the fleet.

And you are just a lesser ganker like the rest of them. Your empty words mean nothing, because you do not even understand what I am talking about. Just because you were -10 does not mean you know what every -10 does or can do. What matters is that the relevant people (not you) understand that this breaks my gameplay and there is no way to properly adapt to it. I do not need to explain it to you, as you do not matter in the slightest. Hell, the amount of empty words in your post is embarassing. You should go into politics.

I will not respond in this thread any more, as the important parts have been set and done. None of you can go into this, because none of you plays like me. I can absolutely guarantee that. CCP can easily go through years of logs about Solstice Project and Solecist Project and find out all by themselves that this would completely break my fleets.

That is *all* that matters. I am not posting here to discuss with you, because you do not matter. Your opinions matter when it comes to the change, but not when it comes to what others say about that change. They especially do not matter when you do not understand what the other person is talking about and randomly trying to argue with people is completely silly and childish. (baltec, for example, who is attention whoring like a madman).


That's all there is to say. CCP, this breaks my gameplay and prevents me from ever again FCing a proer fleet of outlaws in highsec. It reduces my gameplay to all that of the lesser gankers and there *is* *nothing* I can do to adapt. I can happily SHOW YOU if you wish so, just throw me an eve-mail at Solecist Project.


Cheers.


This inconclusive, void-of-arguments rabbling is an insult to fellow readers. Please, less condescending and actual arguments beside *I'm so good, ask me why*.
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1302 - 2015-06-15 12:10:55 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Syzygium wrote:
Solecist Punk wrote:

...random flames and butthurt...


That's all there is to say. CCP, this breaks my gameplay and prevents me from ever again FCing a proer fleet of outlaws in highsec. It reduces my gameplay to all that of the lesser gankers and there *is* *nothing* I can do to adapt. I can happily SHOW YOU if you wish so, just throw me an eve-mail at Solecist Project.

tbh, if your Thrasher-Ganks of capsules and noobships in Highsec are not longer possible, no none will cry a tear.


In other words you've never actually FCed at -10 in highsec, so you have literally no insight into what this means for -10 highsec fleets.



Ah the guy with 17 kill and a birth date of 2013 talks down on the guy with 1300+ kills from 2009. This is currently the best popcorn thread on all of eve o forums.

Heavy alt ship toasting from the faction that does dislike the upcoming change while the ones in favor seem to use their mains, wonder why that is?

Anything that forces people to interact and use their brain some more is good!

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1303 - 2015-06-15 12:15:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:



so because you're overlord fc's have mastered fleet fights you want them nerfed so its harder for any upcoming/learning fc to engage in fleet fights? what a selfish thing to say


That is like saying it was selfish of us to tell CCP they needed to nerf tracking titans. We stand to lose the most from this change as our tactics rely heavily upon one guy in the fleet doing nearly all the work.


yeah that was a pretty sh!t thing to say on my part and tbh i cant even think of any sort of comeback because it was so terrible, sorry i actually dont really know why i even posted that.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1304 - 2015-06-15 12:20:07 UTC
Back in the days people had to do exactly this, warp scouts first and then warp the fleet to the scout, even every fleet member him/herself manually at times, gasp, I wonder how people managed it back then or has the average IQ of the people deteriorate this much that it is now considered too hard for people?

At this pace I wonder what will be considered too hard next? Logging in?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1305 - 2015-06-15 12:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Also want repair broadcasts to only be seen by the squad they are in so logi gets a nerf without having her nerf logistics ships.
Hahahaha!
The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts?
which is in no small part a result of...? Take a guess.
Feeding the "I want crowd" Logi haven't changed in what? A decade? Now they are a problem? Tier 3s, T3s, etc while the T1s languish. Newbies keep having further and further to go and that is disheartening.

Utility > power.

Logis have been a root problem as to why the increases happen. Not the only, by far not the smallest reason. And not being changed doesn't mean anything in regards to their place. If you haven't noticed, a lot of things that were 'fine' and untouched for years are getting redone and tweaked.

Sure, it could be the 'I want' crowd too, but how do you distinguish who is who in a room of people who think everyone else is wrong?
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1306 - 2015-06-15 12:35:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Also want repair broadcasts to only be seen by the squad they are in so logi gets a nerf without having her nerf logistics ships.
Hahahaha!
The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts?
which is in no small part a result of...? Take a guess.
Feeding the "I want crowd" Logi haven't changed in what? A decade? Now they are a problem? Tier 3s, T3s, etc while the T1s languish. Newbies keep having further and further to go and that is disheartening.

Utility > power.

Logis have been a root problem as to why the increases happen. Not the only, by far not the smallest reason. And not being changed doesn't mean anything in regards to their place. If you haven't noticed, a lot of things that were 'fine' and untouched for years are getting redone and tweaked.

Sure, it could be the 'I want' crowd too, but how do you distinguish who is who in a room of people who think everyone else is wrong?

It's not that EVERYONE else is wrong, just the one's who don't agree with me Big smile
Amaterasu Sennin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1307 - 2015-06-15 12:38:04 UTC
so you basically kill WH cuz those rely on bookmarks, you limit the option to warp out and back in in a fight which kills slow ships (read: BS, BC, AHAC), you pretty much remove HS missioner-ganking which makes HS a safer place to carebear in, you make travelling via pings in nullsec take 100% longer, and i could continue all day long. besides of killing multiboxer-miners cuz they cant warp their fleet to pos or dock-bookmark, which in return hurts subscriptions even more and thus lowers your income so eve will continue to die instead of surviving. yay.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1308 - 2015-06-15 12:44:44 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Ah the guy with 17 kill and a birth date of 2013 talks down on the guy with 1300+ kills from 2009. This is currently the best popcorn thread on all of eve o forums.


And if he has a single kill in highsec I sure can't find it. Sorry that I don't post on the character I have over 2000 kills on but I started posting on my scout and I'll continue doing so.
Bam Stroker
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#1309 - 2015-06-15 14:00:33 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
kraken11 jensen wrote:
who wanted fleet warp to get removed? (or reduced possibility) someone in csm was pushing for it? or? im not totally sure about this.


One Manfred Sideous of Pandemic Legion, CSM rep and if you want tin foil, CCP Larriakn is formerly Bam Stroker, of Van Demons Demise, a member corp of Pandemic Legion.


While New Eden would be an amazing place full of love, friendship and solidarity if I were CCP Larrikin I have to let everyone down by clearing up this misunderstanding.

EVE Down Under - a community for players in the AUTZ

In-game channel: evedownunder // Twitter: @evedownunder

https://www.facebook.com/evedownunder

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1310 - 2015-06-15 14:22:18 UTC
If you're going to do something like this, I would suggest you allow fleet members to actually share more of the items they can warp to but the fleet cant, for instance, let the FC link a bookmark as the fleet destination and then let fleet members warp to that.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1311 - 2015-06-15 14:32:42 UTC
Crazy Candy wrote:
Reminder that people are clearly contempt pressing F1, as they can do more than press F1 when they feel like it, and this change is unnecessary.


Your Freudian slip is showing.

Put yourself in CCP's shoes: you have a game that has defied the odds repeatedly. The game made it into a museum while remaining viable. You're putting your heart and soul into gussying it up for its second decade and you're really excited about all the enhancements you're making to the game. Do you want to go on to your own forums and hear that "people just wait for Jabber pings and press F1?"

People complained about ISBoxer giving one person a vastly outsized influence on the game. Well, this is the same thing, only in wetware. You have one person (the FC) actually invested in the game, and then however many people who log in when told, anchor up when told, and press F1 when told, and then log out. If they do stay in the game, it's to run PVE AFK so that CONCORD automagically puts ISK in their wallets while they play League of Legends.

These people have absolutely no investment in the game. They're force multipliers for the handful of people who do. That's great for that handful of people, at least until they burn out, but what does it mean for the health and the longevity of the game?

I FC'd my first roam the other night. It was a very small gang: three Vexors, no links, no alts at all. There was much derping, because I was a first-time FC, and it turns out that "any decision is better than no decision" is much easier to assert than it is to put into practice; but this change wouldn't have substantially affected anything. When we needed a scout, we sent a Vexor.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1312 - 2015-06-15 14:45:25 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Ah the guy with 17 kill and a birth date of 2013 talks down on the guy with 1300+ kills from 2009. This is currently the best popcorn thread on all of eve o forums.


And if he has a single kill in highsec I sure can't find it. Sorry that I don't post on the character I have over 2000 kills on but I started posting on my scout and I'll continue doing so.


I'd be happy if I had one kill that wasn't a suicide gank. I suck at EVE. But I have fun, so I keep at it.

That aside, I think it'll be interesting to see how this pans out. It's possible that people may not like the change now, but they may grow to embrace it. As far as changes to the game go, this is something that is reversible if there's a demonstrated need.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1313 - 2015-06-15 15:22:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zappity wrote:

No. We have 60 pages of people explaining why this change negatively affects their game when their game is not the intended target. We also have 60 pages of you (and pretty much you alone) telling them to htfu.

Should they also remove warp to zero? After all, you only need a scout to go ahead and burn to the gate first. This is a similar argument - it would increase "player involvement" in fleets and be a complete pita for everyone else.


And here you go off the deep end again with your doom mongering. Scouts being needed for fleets is not the end of the world, if you don't have the numbers then go hire some newbees from a starter system.


But then people can't keep their 20 mill SP requirement...

Lol
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1314 - 2015-06-15 15:29:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:


Ok Baltec you have had enough fun trolling this thread but you have ceased contributing anything of use at about page 2. Time to pack up your bat and ball and go welp a megathron (I have an old Baltec megathron for sale in YAO if you need a spare).



You think I'm trolling but our FC ships do infact all come with combat probes fitted. Think about this, the organisation that has effectively won null and owns a good number of the best FCs in the game has put forwards this idea to nerf fleets. We are calling to nerf our own fleets because they are too easy to run. This change is not a hard one to adapt to but it does remove one of the biggest advantages we have in a fight vs the highly disorganized rabble that is most of EVE.


Now you are just trolling. When did Manny join the CFC? He was quite enthusiastic about this early on the thread.

As for winning null sec so what? What is a minor inconvenience for the Imperium and its blob of ships is difficult for small gang and god fvcking awful in wormholes.

And still at the end if it all the justifications dribbled out by CCP don't pass muster when considering the wealth of real broken things to fix (obligatory fix POS's statement) or the broadly vaguely identified items this does "fix" bombers and probing.


Because having a dedicated scout is impossible to ask of a small gangRoll


Nope. Now you're just dodging the real issue (wormholes) and being that guy :getout:

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1315 - 2015-06-15 15:34:22 UTC
Bam Stroker wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
kraken11 jensen wrote:
who wanted fleet warp to get removed? (or reduced possibility) someone in csm was pushing for it? or? im not totally sure about this.


One Manfred Sideous of Pandemic Legion, CSM rep and if you want tin foil, CCP Larriakn is formerly Bam Stroker, of Van Demons Demise, a member corp of Pandemic Legion.


While New Eden would be an amazing place full of love, friendship and solidarity if I were CCP Larrikin I have to let everyone down by clearing up this misunderstanding.


That was a derp on my behalf (I get you two confused) I meant Dark Razer (the rest of the statement is still correct).

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#1316 - 2015-06-15 16:28:22 UTC
Until Alliance bookmarks exist, this change to fleet warp mechanics shouldn't even be entertained. If you need to nerf bomber fleets then nerf bomber fleets, not all fleet warfare.

Just have bombers de-cloak each other and be done with it.

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel

Executor Ardur
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1317 - 2015-06-15 16:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Executor Ardur
I am afraid this is another half fast job done without any real thought put behind the game.

Besides we are going back to the old days 2007, we are nerfing the game tactics.

So now warping the fleet you either need to use a scout with all the bookmarks that goes ahead and everybody jumps to him.
Ofcource the easy counter to this is go after the scout time and time again and the fleet cannot really kite after that and are forced to either leave the battle or engage is disfavourable terms. In effect CCP just killed kitting with this. Now you will be forced to stand ground and fight even thought you can be out numbered. This change is very bad when small entities are taking on large ones. All the recent changes were suppose to benefits the smaller entities and help them get more space etc. Now this goes completelly against it and benefits only the larger entities.
As a result scouts which already are in inties and cannot be trapped by bubbles will fit outragious implants and do 10,000 + km/s. Exactly like in the past. I thought we moved from this to make the game better?

Been forced to do "sharing of bookmarks" is the worst idea in my opinion. I mean all you need is a spy and whats the points of having a bookmarks when you enemy knows them already. Again killed kitting/snipping, element of surprise and tactics. We have encountered many cases where the spies have stolen our bookmarks before and came very close to be trapped. Imagine now with this change. Its free intel with no effort besides putting someone on some corp.

And i think the wormhole people have said plenty in this thread.

I feel like CCP is trying to fix something by doing this and I am not sure what exactly is. Something tells me that a simple change as reducing the fleet size will fix this issue, therefore forcing multiple fleets. And for god sake, ban all tool like ISBOXING fully cos this will solve half your problems. But I could be wrong I this part cos I am not sure if bombers is their real target with this nerf. I dont feel bombers are over powered. Its no different from people using tengus or whatever is the next thing that works for them.

FC will still continue and drive the whole fleets no matter what I think cos its in their nature.
Its too easy for the larger entities to just kill the scout. Once the scout is dead, its GG for kitting fleet!
Ben Ishikela
#1318 - 2015-06-15 16:45:02 UTC
+1 for a hard change that the playerbase does not understand YET.
+1 for more involvement required.
+1 for more frigate utility required.
+1 for more teamwork required.
+1 for more social skill required.

-1 for that i have to adapt to new strategies now. I cannot be lazy anymore.Shocked
+1 for making fleets fun again, when you cannot fly the doctrine's dps/logi and therefor fly a ceptor.
I think this changes WH taktics to the better. Just be creative damn it.

For roaming in WH-Chain: Use a covertfrigate to position itself at the next wormhole and provide a warpin. then it moves to the next one. it has a high warpspeed. This should work with inter-corp fleets.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Phaade
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#1319 - 2015-06-15 16:59:54 UTC
Senov Belis wrote:
+1 to the "not playing anymore" list.

All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.



Good, one less f1 monkey.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1320 - 2015-06-15 17:06:34 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:



so because you're overlord fc's have mastered fleet fights you want them nerfed so its harder for any upcoming/learning fc to engage in fleet fights? what a selfish thing to say


That is like saying it was selfish of us to tell CCP they needed to nerf tracking titans. We stand to lose the most from this change as our tactics rely heavily upon one guy in the fleet doing nearly all the work.


yeah that was a pretty sh!t thing to say on my part and tbh i cant even think of any sort of comeback because it was so terrible, sorry i actually dont really know why i even posted that.


You are a rare gem.