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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Shadowforge Dawkins
Un.Reasonable
#1341 - 2015-06-15 21:37:36 UTC
If CCP really wants to nail this concept on the head... of forcing more content and not ******* over other areas of k-space and wormhole space, why don't they change this a bit.

While still adhereing to the plans of removing fleet warp; Allow squads to keep fleet warp, ONLY the squads.

Q; Why only squads?
A; It will Create new Tactics in all aspects of space, both known and wormhole.

Q; What kind of new content is created? -all space
A; FC's will now get to pick out who is in the special ops Squad that no one else listens to and get their own channel. Short bus.

Q; How does this affect T3 tactics?
A; A group of Scouts and Tackle will now occupy the same squad, with the new duty of only hunting, catching, and killing T3's at range.

Q; Does it kill wormhole fighting capabilities?
A; No, They will have to select what ships are in what squads if and when we exceed 10 people... they will have to adapt, yes, but it will not be raze another monument worthy.

Q; Does it mess up those annoying altaholics?
A; No... maybe? if someone has that many alts they deserve to suffer. seriously. I have a life away from the computer tho so I have a rather one sided opinion on these altaholics.

Q; Does it wreck pirate fleets causing calculated mayhem in highsec?
A; No, so long as it is a small fleet of 10 or less. Otherwise I'd love to see the end result of it.

Q; Does it end the Blob Battles?
A; Even if you got rid of fleet warp all together, still going to happen. They will just be coming in droves of 10 now. If ill timed you can wipe out their Logi then whatever comes next.
stoicfaux
#1342 - 2015-06-15 21:40:13 UTC
@baltec1 Quick[1] question: IIRC, somewhere in this thread, didn't you state that you can fleet warp to a ship that's already in warp?

Does the fleet warp to the target ship-still-in-warp's current location, or the destination location of the warp?


[1] Quick, dumb, potato, potatoe...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Foxstar Damaskeenus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1343 - 2015-06-15 21:40:51 UTC
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. However, this seems like trying to fix something that isn't broke or fix something that's broken by breaking 5 other things.

I'm concerned for high sec gankers. Some CODE. members were saying this was going to ruin some of their gank fleets. The last thing this game needs, i thought, was people mining all day in high sec and tanking the price of minerals. This is also going to make people safer from combat probing and fleets warping on them.

Eve is a hard game, not a risk averse game. This feels very much like a step in the wrong direction.

This may be the first time I've come on forums to gripe since the rumor Hilmar wanted to sell "pay to win" special ammo in the Aurum store.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath

Sumeragy
3th Guardian
Foxhole Enclave
#1344 - 2015-06-15 21:43:27 UTC
This Tread should be the reason we should invent for the Forums an dislike button !!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1345 - 2015-06-15 21:48:42 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
@baltec1 Quick[1] question: IIRC, somewhere in this thread, didn't you state that you can fleet warp to a ship that's already in warp?

Does the fleet warp to the target ship-still-in-warp's current location, or the destination location of the warp?


[1] Quick, dumb, potato, potatoe...



Current location. Get a fast ship to warp around in a triangle, have the fleet make their own safe and you wind you with stuff everywhere. Makes scanning stuff a real pain for the enemy.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#1346 - 2015-06-15 21:49:07 UTC
Shadowforge Dawkins wrote:
Onslaughtor wrote:
So me and a bunch of friends found a possible solution to keeping the main design goal of getting people involved with fleets and a sense of personal agency, while maintaining our current level of fleet ability, AND adding in new ability in the form of sudo fleet formations.

Current fleet warp functions are split into 2 parts.

1
Fleet warps as we know them now become emergency fleet warps. They can only warp to a few permanent objects such as the sun, planets, stations, and gates. This is the "No time to explain we are leaving" option for the fc and keeps that functionality alive while limiting it and allowing game play to form in the chase.

2
The new fleet warp mechanic is a fleet warp broadcast. This broadcast works on anything the current (pre aegis) fleetwarp can. Upon activation, everyone gets a visible broadcast saying the fc is starting a fleet warp. From there each pilot mush click on it and accept the warp at a range they choose. After some number of seconds (ten seems reasonable) the fleetwarp is initiated for everyone who signed on. After that, any fleet member may still warp to the broadcast in the fleet history.


In this way, current functionality is preserved and the design goals are meet, while also adding new functionality. Programing my be required, o dear.

If you agree please quote as these forums seem to bury things really quickly.


While this seems viable on paper... however I foresee ungodly lag spikes coming from it. Imagine a fleet of 500 people getting that same broadcast and having to click on it, couldn't tell you. As for Wormhole space, not going to fly. If our target can align in 15 seconds we just lost him due to the warp time being another 10 seconds out of warp waiting on the fleet warp.

I believe it would be best suited to reduce fleet warp to squads at the most. possibly let wings as well.


broadcasting to 256 (as that is the actual limit) fleet members as we have seen in game already takes no time at all or lag that we have ever really seen. Yes this may be a little different but to judge a idea on something so unknown and irreverent based on the current broadcast system and warpsystem combined, is futile at best.

As for the second one, ships still take time to align into warp. The fc can start the broadcast as soon as he hits grid and then people can follow it while they align, in other words similar to a un pre aligned fleet warp. If you want faster then you have to warp yourself. I don't really see how the argument you gave is really unique to wh space or really even related. All wh bookmark and fleet warping functionality is saved while maybe slowing down your fleet warping in the case of ceptors. And if in your case you have eyes on target like I would expect a good wh hunter to do then you can just warp to fleetmate and save the hassle. Some small changes may have to be made in the case of combat scanning, but you can fit combat probe launchers to your t3ds and dictors if you try.

Finally your last proposal doesn't meet the original design goal for the change. It may be better than what fozzie wants (this is his idea btw) but still doesn't fix the problem of player agency in fleets.
Foxstar Damaskeenus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1347 - 2015-06-15 21:50:41 UTC
How about they just don't change it, this is dumb.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath

stoicfaux
#1348 - 2015-06-15 21:51:28 UTC
Sumeragy wrote:
This Tread should be the reason we should invent for the Forums an dislike button !!

CCP was going to implement a dislike button for individuals to express their displeasure over a post, but a vocal component of player base whined that FCs should be able to "Fleet Dislike" a post, whereupon CCP rolled their eyes and nerfed drone assignment instead.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Insurance Agent
Hull Zero Two
#1349 - 2015-06-15 21:54:50 UTC
Foxstar Damaskeenus wrote:
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. However, this seems like trying to fix something that isn't broke or fix something that's broken by breaking 5 other things.

I'm concerned for high sec gankers. Some CODE. members were saying this was going to ruin some of their gank fleets. The last thing this game needs, i thought, was people mining all day in high sec and tanking the price of minerals. This is also going to make people safer from combat probing and fleets warping on them.

Eve is a hard game, not a risk averse game. This feels very much like a step in the wrong direction.

This may be the first time I've come on forums to gripe since the rumor Hilmar wanted to sell "pay to win" special ammo in the Aurum store.


It ironic that you say this will make fleet movement hard.

Like you said, eve should be hard so get good without fleet warps... mkay
Azarah Aubaris
The Irukandji
#1350 - 2015-06-15 22:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Azarah Aubaris
this idea is still fuking re-tar-ded
Bleedingthrough
#1351 - 2015-06-15 22:36:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:


Nope. Now you're just dodging the real issue (wormholes) and being that guy :getout:


Wormholes operate in the same way as any other area of space when it comes to scanning stuff down with scouts. If anything WH entities should have an advantage after this change in having more experienced probing pilots per head in their organisations.


Nope, it will be pretty bad for multi corporation WH groups. They can no longer move their fleets in WH space unless everyone got all the BMs which is typically not the case if you open a new static and the chain connected to it.
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1352 - 2015-06-15 23:05:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:


Nope. Now you're just dodging the real issue (wormholes) and being that guy :getout:


Wormholes operate in the same way as any other area of space when it comes to scanning stuff down with scouts. If anything WH entities should have an advantage after this change in having more experienced probing pilots per head in their organisations.


That reply makes no sense.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1353 - 2015-06-16 01:43:56 UTC
Eve should be hard because of the challenge presented by other players, not because of the interface or controls available to the players.

My recommendation: cap maximum fleet size at 50. Now you require more FC's (an actual fun role), you limit the power of watch lists and broadcasts considerably (limits remote repair somewhat), it lessens the number of people one FC can assist. And, for the most part, you don't screw up WH's, small gangs, catching OGB's, and most of the other things about which people are upset.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

roxas121
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1354 - 2015-06-16 02:36:33 UTC
Lets just put it this way CCP I have been playing for 7 and a half years now I have 4 accounts that I pay for and I enjoy the game. I live in wormhole space I enjoy WH space, but it is already hard to get the drop on site runners or even other pvp fleets because of the time it takes to scan them down get the fleet organized and on their way.

If you want to stop Stealth bombers from Nuking people then take out bombs or nerf their damage or make it to where the oh I dont know DEFENDER MISSILES ACTUALLY WORK AND KILL BOMBS! If you want to nerf F1 jockeys and blobs this is not the way to do it there will always be F1 jockeys and blobers they will just learn ways around them as far as this change is conserned this is going to hurt the WH community much more than anyone else your saying your targeting.

If this change goes though I do not plan on continuing to play EVE online I WILL UNSUB and I wont come back until it is fixed.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1355 - 2015-06-16 02:37:07 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:


nail on the head and it's not exactly hard these days to probe. so all people gotta do is up the scout numbers and train more probers.


Instead of doing things that are useful to fleet and interesting to them, like, oh I don't know, logis, neuts, jams, or .. dps? Why create a chore and take away from the fun of people who operate in a pretty specialized manner?
kyoukoku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1356 - 2015-06-16 02:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: kyoukoku
This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1357 - 2015-06-16 03:45:22 UTC
kyoukoku wrote:
This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.


That's a pretty good article.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#1358 - 2015-06-16 03:48:25 UTC
kyoukoku wrote:
This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.


+1
Having an option to broadcast probe results is an excellent idea, and I can see no good argument against it.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1359 - 2015-06-16 05:40:53 UTC
Fifth Blade wrote:
kyoukoku wrote:
This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.


+1
Having an option to broadcast probe results is an excellent idea, and I can see no good argument against it.

This right here is literally the only acceptable compromise for derping things up with the proposed change. Would honestly prefer the change doesn't go through at all, but if it must, than this needs to be included otherwise it's just another poorly concieved change that appears to be happening simply for the sake of change, as every argument for this change has given absolutely zero examples on what this actually improves/fixes.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#1360 - 2015-06-16 06:05:14 UTC
Shadowforge Dawkins wrote:
If CCP really wants to nail this concept on the head... of forcing more content and not ******* over other areas of k-space and wormhole space, why don't they change this a bit.

While still adhereing to the plans of removing fleet warp; Allow squads to keep fleet warp, ONLY the squads.
.


I like this. It promotes small gang maneuverability, while still keeping some more niche techniques in the game.