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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Talbrys Narentyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#961 - 2015-03-04 01:29:10 UTC
Buzzsaw Blade wrote:
Talbrys Narentyr wrote:
Buzzsaw Blade wrote:
CCP this is some great stuff you guys have going here. Please don't cave to the big power blocks, I can only speculate why they have the need to hold such vast areas of space or what happens to all the isk that they make from their renal empires, however it is clear that it has nothing to do with content creation.

The only thing I can think of that could be a potential problem is cloaky AFK camping, this can be easily fixed by adding a cycle timer to the module, forcing the cloaked player to reactivate the cloak every x amount of time, and if they are AFK it gives the inhabitants of that system a fighting chance to scan down the camper and destroy his ship. Right now cloaky campers have no risk versus a lot of reward of griefing the inhabitants of the system being camped which is not what EVE is about as it is a game of RISK versus REWARD.

That's my 2 cents and you don't have to like it.


Not sure if you're being serious but we don't necessarily want to hold vast quantities of space. We just want sov wars to be fun and meaningful.



You see that's why I added this little disclaimer, just for special little people like you, it says " That's my 2 cents and you don't have to like it"

On a side note, please tell me more about how you're looking out for our best interest and making sov war a lot meaningful, you have ZERO credibility in that statement being a member of the alliance that has the biggest rental empire.



I don't see how that disclaimer has anything to do with what I posted. Unless you put it there so if anyone disagreed with you you could point out people have different opinions as though it was secret knowledge?

Again, we want sov warefare to be meaningful and fun. Currently renter empires are meaningful, hence why big alliances have them. If you make the space we live in profitable so we don't have to load up on renters we will still be happy.
Maddaxe Illat
Kerberos Inc.
#962 - 2015-03-04 01:39:02 UTC
so all of eve is now going to me FW?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#963 - 2015-03-04 01:41:24 UTC
Honestly, trying to predict fits before we know the fitting requirements of the entosis module is pretty fruitless. It may very well be that the T2 entosis link has fitting that precludes interceptors, or cap use that precludes interceptors (a bit of a stretch given the 2m cycle time but hey), or some other chicanery.

If it's fittable to interceptors, though, boy howdy that is gonna be fun.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Thoirdhealbhach
Liga der hessischen Gentlemen
#964 - 2015-03-04 01:44:32 UTC
Talbrys Narentyr wrote:
All they're doing is making it even more aids to take a system, and practically impossible to do anything outside of your own TZ.

All you need is a cloud of interceptors with the t2 (250km range one) loaded up with sebos and a mwd and orbit far enough away so you can't smartbomb the blob and keep traversal up. Get a few fleets of these (only need 30 or so duders in each), load in some benny hill music and glhf.

It's not so much you can't kill the interceptors, as much as killing a single fleet of 30 interceptors before 10-40 minutes is a pain in the ****. Now look at killing 10 fleets of them reinforcing all your **** in a region and this mechanic is insanely annoying and most of the targets will get reinforced anyway.

This strategy also favors the larger alliances in that the smaller ones won't be able to chase down the masses of intys the larger ones can throw at a region so I don't get why so many of these small alliances are looking forward to this thinking they will be able to hold space.

From the other devblog" We are well aware that Nullsec empires have mastered the strategy of weaponizing their opponent’s boredom" so now we'll give you a way to weaponize your opponent's frustration. This will lead to quicker burn out than blueballing.

Edit: And for those who keep saying "well you can stop their progress by putting your own sov lazor on it" are ********. Then it just becomes a battle of who is willing to stay logged on longer. The only way this could possibly work is if it was a cruiser size and above. If it can be put on an inty it's the end of sov warfare and the beginning of sov trolling.


With T2 E-links on ceptors you're talking 100 Million ISK+ per ship. That is one hell of a bad ISK per EHP ratio... as well as ISK per DPS... Even with the T1 E-link you're basically doubling the price of your ship. Seems to me, that for the E-link to pay off, you would want to put it in a ship worth at least ~150 Mil, so HAC or shiny faction cruiser or whatnot.

Now as the defender, you just have to make sure, that you have a few rock solid brick tanks ready to go, docked up or logged out in alt, in every system (a Drake with RLMs, all tanky mods, and a T1 E-link will cost even less as ONE of the proposed T2 E-link ceptors and keep em busy forever). Now you stop capture/reinforcement counter of the ceptor blob and wait for the dedicated anti ceptor cavalry to arrive and mop up. Ceptors are only so damn hard to catch, cause they dictate range and can warp off insanely fast, once they feel the tide turning. With a 2 min or even 5 min E-link cycle on their back, I would think that crucial "oops, time to go..." advantage is gone.

Now there will most probably emerge some interesting, very mobile fits out there, fits, that could cause a lot of trouble. But I would bet, that all those nifty troublemaker concepts would revolve around faction cruisers, T3 destroyers and T3 cruisers. My bet is, that the T3 dessis will come out the closest to the ceptor rush, that everyone is having so many nightmares about, and all other likely options seems sufficiently expensive, so that not everybody and their mother will make a day to day habit out of them.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#965 - 2015-03-04 01:48:52 UTC
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#966 - 2015-03-04 01:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
1. Where is 'use it or lose it'?
2. Why would I actually want sov?
3. I am an AU player so I don't like you any more.
4. How can an alliance grow upward instead of outward?

I like entosis, distributed capture and freeport.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#967 - 2015-03-04 01:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


And if one does not live in a system, they can turn ownership.

If the system is lived in, not so much.
One local prevents capture, for as long as he survives.
If one lives in a system, hopefully one would not expect to defend against 100 ships on your own?

You want sov? Defend your home.

That's pretty much the idea...........

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#968 - 2015-03-04 01:53:19 UTC
There is no excuse for being able to use your 'prime time' window to exclude entire time zones from participating in alliance/corporation activities, it is simply a divisive, segregating mechanic that will disillusion entire groups from attempting to participate in sov warfare, it HAS to go, i dont know how to respond to anyone who supports it as it only reduces content rather than increase it
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#969 - 2015-03-04 01:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zip Slings
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png

Edit: Make that a T1 Hydraulic Bay Thruster Rig
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#970 - 2015-03-04 01:54:23 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


And if one does not live in a system, they can turn ownership.

If the system is lived in, not so much.

That's pretty much the idea...........


Lived in? Who cares? Just fly around in that uncatchable interceptor and activate the magic plot device on every structure until the timer runs out or you get chased off.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#971 - 2015-03-04 01:55:09 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png


You can't kill what you can't catch, hope that helps.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#972 - 2015-03-04 01:55:57 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


And if one does not live in a system, they can turn ownership.

If the system is lived in, not so much.

That's pretty much the idea...........


Lived in? Who cares? Just fly around in that uncatchable interceptor and activate the magic plot device on every structure until the timer runs out or you get chased off.



So You get run off, op success, they deserve their home.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#973 - 2015-03-04 01:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.

Sure they can run around and target every structure they find....but can they then do anything about someone undocking and sitting at zero without having to move into frigate gun range and completely negating their range tank?

+1 btw, I was too lazy to EFT this yet :)

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#974 - 2015-03-04 01:56:36 UTC
Lister Vindaloo wrote:
There is no excuse for being able to use your 'prime time' window to exclude entire time zones from participating in alliance/corporation activities, it is simply a divisive, segregating mechanic that will disillusion entire groups from attempting to participate in sov warfare, it HAS to go, i dont know how to respond to anyone who supports it as it only reduces content rather than increase it


Have a look at my post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5547628#post5547628 and let me know what you think
PerrinBash
Living the Dream
#975 - 2015-03-04 01:56:44 UTC
I do like the direction of the team but its far from the vision I had. Makes it more complex rather then less. I would suggest the following:
1. 3 types of stations, and a station must be built to have sov in every system.
A. MCS- master control station, has all familiar facilities and can have eco and defense upgrades
B. ECO- has basic services and can use eco enhancements.
C. DEF-has no service but allow enhanced defense.
Your other ideas are brilliant and makes null much more interesting and interactive, keep nothing of the current sov mech's ino.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#976 - 2015-03-04 01:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Okay here is the idea.

MAKE tech II (tier 3) battleships. I would call them Flag ships.

They are the only ones that can fit the Entosis Link.

Make the Entosis Link a variation of the bastion module. so it gets bonus to hull resist and armor and shield.

Make some lore about how the drifter technology is extremely advanced and it requires a specialised ship to do so.

this mean tech II black abbadon

tech II red hyperion

tech II camo rokh

tech II mael

..................

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#977 - 2015-03-04 01:58:31 UTC
Industrial bonus should be higher than military. while the military bonus would seem more logical as a higher bonus or equal, it would emphasize mining and industrial activity in null sec.
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#978 - 2015-03-04 01:59:46 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png


You can't kill what you can't catch, hope that helps.


So Ceptor can't reinforce and Caracal can't catch. Nothing gets reinforced. gg defenders win
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#979 - 2015-03-04 02:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
MeBiatch wrote:
Okay here is the idea.

MAKE tech II (tier 3) battleships. I would call them Flag ships.

They are the only ones that can fit the Entosis Link.

Make the Entosis Link a variation of the bastion module. so it gets bonus to hull resist and armor and shield.

Make some lore about how the drifter technology is extremely advanced and it requires a specialised ship to do so.

this mean tech II black abbadon

tech II red hyperion

tech II camo rokh

tech II mael

..................



Sure, and they keep their sov by hiding behind bubbles, and instalock gatecamps thirty jumps away from where you want to take.
Nothing changed good game! , CCP are not stupid enough to fall for this, give them SOME respect. Possibly you would like a super jump fatigue temoval module on top?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#980 - 2015-03-04 02:01:28 UTC
Lister Vindaloo wrote:
There is no excuse for being able to use your 'prime time' window to exclude entire time zones from participating in alliance/corporation activities, it is simply a divisive, segregating mechanic that will disillusion entire groups from attempting to participate in sov warfare, it HAS to go, i dont know how to respond to anyone who supports it as it only reduces content rather than increase it


That's BS. If you are EUTZ and your alliamce has aa USTZ window, you can still go attack other EUTZ sov. Therefore you are still participating in sov warfare. If you want to take part in defensive sov warfare in your USTZ window then alarm clock for it. Or leave and join an EUTZ alliance.