These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#981 - 2015-03-04 02:02:48 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Lister Vindaloo wrote:
There is no excuse for being able to use your 'prime time' window to exclude entire time zones from participating in alliance/corporation activities, it is simply a divisive, segregating mechanic that will disillusion entire groups from attempting to participate in sov warfare, it HAS to go, i dont know how to respond to anyone who supports it as it only reduces content rather than increase it


That's BS. If you are EUTZ and your alliamce has aa USTZ window, you can still go attack other EUTZ sov. Therefore you are still participating in sov warfare. If you want to take part in defensive sov warfare in your USTZ window then alarm clock for it. Or leave and join an EUTZ alliance.


Have a look at my post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5547628#post5547628 and let me know what you think
Ben Ishikela
#982 - 2015-03-04 02:04:05 UTC
uiuiuiuiui, .... took some time too read through all of it.
its amazingly easy and provides lots of opportunity to fight. Now i even consider going there.

One question for now (more tomorrow) :
What happens, if a ship that has applied the link, dies? is its progress deleted? can its progress be continued by friend? does this friend have to have a secondary link already active to be able to continue? If it is like the timer in FW atm, where the timer stops if nothing is active and can even be continued later in these 4 hours, then +1 for this point.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#983 - 2015-03-04 02:06:46 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png

Edit: Make that a T1 Hydraulic Bay Thruster Rig



the misles will never get to this ares, not eaven from cerberus.

Remeber every second this ceptor do another 4 km, so every second you lose another 4 km from the missle.

Missles will run out of fuel before they can get to any of those interceptors.


Sniper naga would be much better for this. Chep max range, will track ceptor on this insane orbit with no problems.
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#984 - 2015-03-04 02:06:46 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
uiuiuiuiui, .... took some time too read through all of it.
its amazingly easy and provides lots of opportunity to fight. Now i even consider going there.

One question for now (more tomorrow) :
What happens, if a ship that has applied the link, dies? is its progress deleted? can its progress be continued by friend? does this friend have to have a secondary link already active to be able to continue? If it is like the timer in FW atm, where the timer stops if nothing is active and can even be continued later in these 4 hours, then +1 for this point.


We had the same question. I think it makes sense for any broken link's progress to be saved and either restarted by an ally or undone by an enemy, regardless of why the link was broken.
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#985 - 2015-03-04 02:07:49 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png

Edit: Make that a T1 Hydraulic Bay Thruster Rig



the misles will never get to this ares, not eaven from cerberus.

Remeber every second this ceptor do another 4 km, so every second you lose another 4 km from the missle.

Missles will run out of fuel before they can get to any of those interceptors.


Sniper naga would be much better for this. Chep max range, will track ceptor on this insane orbit with no problems.


Works for me :) anything to get people to shut up about this interceptor nonsense and focus on the actual issues with this system.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#986 - 2015-03-04 02:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.

Bit late but here's my counter for 56 of those Ares (assuming you put light neutrons in the two remaining highslots not taken by the link)

http://i.imgur.com/3iy4TtX.jpg

come at me brah


:D

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#987 - 2015-03-04 02:09:16 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
Works for me :) anything to get people to shut up about this interceptor nonsense and focus on the actual issues with this system.


the interceptors are an actual issue with the system
Roofdog2
Penn Industries
#988 - 2015-03-04 02:10:08 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png


You can't kill what you can't catch, hope that helps.



first off, plz bring a 100 of those in my space. its pretty easy to just kill them all without a scratch on my naga. or has noone heard of tracking enhancers on sniper ships? and that nice align time isn't gonne help you since you got a module on which blocks you from warping and has a quite long cicle time.


Only thing i think is going to be a problem is the Ihub. An Ihub cost around 350 mil which isn't that big of a deal but the upgrades in there are. At the moment a fully upgraded Ihub costs around 6.5 bil without taking in consideration that you have to move a lot of the upgrades in by fraigter instead of JF couz of the size. And with the new changes you can blow these things up in around 40 min. Looking at the ease of how you can blow one of these up and how mutch they cost, i think the Ihubs need to be rebalanced. Basicly make them less m3 including the upgrades and make them around the 1 bil total cost. Else it will not be worth it hanging something so easely distroyed up in 0.0 , but without them, its not even worth living anywhere in 0.0

at least, thats my vieuw on it.
Barbaydos
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#989 - 2015-03-04 02:10:18 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
4. "The 'Primetime' Mechanic"

This one is the only one that has some actual merit behind it. There is something to be said for "off" time pilots. So...

My suggested change:


We can keep the proposed 4 hour vulnerability window. Having Alliances have to be most vigilant in their own stated prime time makes sense. BUT the idea that an alliance should be completely invulnerable to SOV attack for the other 20 hours is ridiculous.

Instead, have the other 20 hours work on a sliding scale. 4 hours before and after "primetime," that alliance's structures require Entosis Links to cycle for twice as long as during "primetime." Four hours before and after that, three times as long. Etc. These are numbers off the top of my head and could be thought out more and normalized etc. Either way this makes SOV vulnerable round the clock but MOST vulnerable during primetime and least vulnerable in off times.

The only thing I can't figure out is how to manage when things would come out of reinforce depending on when it was reinforced. Discuss.



well if you take it so that it takes 2x or 3x as long to reinforce the structure outside of prime time then you take the multiplier and apply it to the timer window itself and move it up to 2/3 x the original 4 hour window
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#990 - 2015-03-04 02:11:44 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Works for me :) anything to get people to shut up about this interceptor nonsense and focus on the actual issues with this system.


the interceptors are an actual issue with the system


You mean the part where people have to actually defend their space when people start reinforcing things? The part where interceptors can't actually hold a field in a real SOV fight? Where exactly should I fear the interceptor?
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#991 - 2015-03-04 02:12:15 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Works for me :) anything to get people to shut up about this interceptor nonsense and focus on the actual issues with this system.


the interceptors are an actual issue with the system


You mean the part where people have to actually defend their space when people start reinforcing things? The part where interceptors can't actually hold a field in a real SOV fight? Where exactly should I fear the interceptor?


have you ever been to nullsec

serious question
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#992 - 2015-03-04 02:12:51 UTC
Is this not a huge buff to solo PVP. Now one dude with halitosis can pick all the fights they want
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#993 - 2015-03-04 02:13:40 UTC
Roofdog2 wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


I'll see your Ares and raise you a Caracal http://i.imgur.com/LEhErJQ.png


You can't kill what you can't catch, hope that helps.



first off, plz bring a 100 of those in my space. its pretty easy to just kill them all without a scratch on my naga. or has noone heard of tracking enhancers on sniper ships? and that nice align time isn't gonne help you since you got a module on which blocks you from warping and has a quite long cicle time.


Only thing i think is going to be a problem is the Ihub. An Ihub cost around 350 mil which isn't that big of a deal but the upgrades in there are. At the moment a fully upgraded Ihub costs around 6.5 bil without taking in consideration that you have to move a lot of the upgrades in by fraigter instead of JF couz of the size. And with the new changes you can blow these things up in around 40 min. Looking at the ease of how you can blow one of these up and how mutch they cost, i think the Ihubs need to be rebalanced. Basicly make them less m3 including the upgrades and make them around the 1 bil total cost. Else it will not be worth it hanging something so easely distroyed up in 0.0 , but without them, its not even worth living anywhere in 0.0

at least, thats my vieuw on it.


I don't disagree that a lot of your points on IHubs are valid but they cant be blown up in 40 mins. They can be reinforced, but then everyone has a timer to fight over. Same large scale strategic objective with arguably more complexity/difficulty.
Soleil Fournier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#994 - 2015-03-04 02:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
You're on the right track, but it's very incomplete.


Suggestion 1)

There should be cruiser-specific objectives, battleship-specific objectives, and capital-specific objectives. These objective would require the use of that specific sized Entosis module.

Command Nodes should be for cruiser entosis Modules.
'X' (TBD) Nodes should be for battleship Entosis Modules.
Stations/Ihubs should be for capitals Entosis Modules. (or some other arrangement)

Reasoning:

All shiptypes should be included in sov. I can't get capital fleet combat anywhere else reliably, but this design kills capital combat by not requiring their use and forcing mobility (plus penalizing capital entosis modules). Using a design practice as shown above will ensure that all players get to participate in their favorite playstyle without causing it t be detrimental to other playstyles.



Suggestion 2)

When a station service is "captured" or "incapped" There should be a 24-48 hour timer before it can be reactivated.

Reasoning:
Consequences. If I can just "repair" or re-capture a service 5 minutes after a hostile gang captures it, there really isn't a consequence and it'll just be a carry over of design failures of the dominion system. Consequences like this make sense.


I like a ton of what you've done, but you have to really just go that extra step now.
Zip Slings
Southern Cross Silver Shields
Flying Dangerous
#995 - 2015-03-04 02:16:27 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Works for me :) anything to get people to shut up about this interceptor nonsense and focus on the actual issues with this system.


the interceptors are an actual issue with the system


You mean the part where people have to actually defend their space when people start reinforcing things? The part where interceptors can't actually hold a field in a real SOV fight? Where exactly should I fear the interceptor?


have you ever been to nullsec

serious question


A. Yes. I have lived in null my entire EVE career.

B. This change is designed to change how you think about SOV mechanics. Shocker.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#996 - 2015-03-04 02:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Dear CCP Fozzie, I suggest making the tosser module a default warpable item in overview like cynos.

Can you also make the tosser module eject pods from their ship? Ship sov contests would be fun.
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#997 - 2015-03-04 02:19:11 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Here's the new cheapo sov-taking ship of the future.

Aligns in 1.7s, locks out to ~117km, goes ~4km/s. Good luck stopping a fleet of those from running around and targeting every structure they can find.


And I counter with this Muninn: 70 dps at 100km against your inty's numbers. Two or three shots and you're dead.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#998 - 2015-03-04 02:21:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Dear CCP Fozzie, I suggest making the tosser module a default warpable item in overview like cynos.

Can you also make the tosser module eject pods from their ship? Ship sov contests would be fun.


Ha! Tosser module. And like the model T ford....
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#999 - 2015-03-04 02:22:20 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Okay here is the idea.

MAKE tech II (tier 3) battleships. I would call them Flag ships.

They are the only ones that can fit the Entosis Link.

Make the Entosis Link a variation of the bastion module. so it gets bonus to hull resist and armor and shield.

Make some lore about how the drifter technology is extremely advanced and it requires a specialised ship to do so.

this mean tech II black abbadon

tech II red hyperion

tech II camo rokh

tech II mael

..................



Sure, and they keep their sov by hiding behind bubbles, and instalock gatecamps thirty jumps away from where you want to take.
Nothing changed good game! , CCP are not stupid enough to fall for this, give them SOME respect. Possibly you would like a super jump fatigue temoval module on top?


you should be able to defend space you live in... its the space they dont actively live in that should be vulnerable

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Coelomate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1000 - 2015-03-04 02:26:45 UTC
Dispersed conflict: People are underestimating how spread out conflict will be - "just" 5 command nodes will only happen if attacking a single station on its second timer. If you reinforce every structure in a constellation you get dozens of command nodes. The strategic choices will be interesting, and conflicts could have mixed results, with attackers picking up a few structures but failing to get others.

Occupancy: More metrics need to be included in defensive bonus calculation. The 3 current indices are just length of time held, rats killed, and ore mined. PI, PVP activity, market activity, and many other activities should get rolled into the system, or else you'll see min/maxing to the indices (which will mean unironic mining ops that will bore people to death).

Supers: The size of your super fleet will now determine the quality of space you can hold, not the quantity of it you can hold. This started to be true in Phoebe, but these changes will really cement it. That's probably healthier for the game, but realistically supers are going to become more valuable than sov, so one wonders how willing people will be to commit them.

Prime time: I like 4 hours of prime time. It's a violent change and will cause huge strife to existing social structures, but that pain will result in an EVE where groups of pilots who actually log on at the same time are playing with (and against!) one another. That shuffle is also likely to see some coalitions fragment (at least initially), because your alliance only needs to beef up a single timezone for defense.

Sov structure placement: I may have missed this in the blog, but what will be require to place a TCU, ihub, or station? If the answer is "nothing" then TCU races after big sov battles and dropping caldari research stations in other people's sov could become a thing...

Armor caps: Just a funny thought, but with no more final armor timers, that's one less reason to focus on an armor/super doctrine.

Love,

~Coelomate