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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3981 - 2015-04-22 09:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Well, but my point there were that it is just ridiculous to make null sec, but not high sec, new low sec FW arena (without LP)...


(in the release originally planned to follow Incarna, which was scrapped for Crucible).



You see???

Yep this is how lost I am, I cant just keep track/remember all changes /non-changes from last 6 years, I have found my hangar full of already fitted ships I were not able to fly after "rebalancing", skilled for "warp-bubbles" to stop enemies at our only gate just when CCP decided to let interceptors through bubbles, now when I had just started skilling to carriers (I always wanted, BIG ships), "no no, null sec sov is turning to FW timers!"....

I just have had it (up there), did let 2 of my null sec accounts expire yesterday, only this remains.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3982 - 2015-04-22 13:41:20 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
I just have had it (up there), did let 2 of my null sec accounts expire yesterday, only this remains.


Cool. Can I have your stuff?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3983 - 2015-04-22 17:35:04 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
I just have had it (up there), did let 2 of my null sec accounts expire yesterday, only this remains.


Cool. Can I have your stuff?


"Yesterday"...

Too late?
But dont worry, this char will be around this year minimum.
I just poop isk in FW.
marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc.
The Bastion
#3984 - 2015-04-23 16:15:05 UTC
Perfect griefer's charter this lot is, PL/BL must be drooling already.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Bogdo Lama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3985 - 2015-04-23 18:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bogdo Lama
Lugburz wrote:
listen, if you nullbears dont want to defend your space; if you want it to be 'safe', gtfo and go back to highsec where you really belong. it really is that simple.

have a nice day.


Your such a smart little troll. But tell me what is your method of carebearing? I mean according your comment your not nullbear. But if your not nullbear then you are either hisec bear, lowsec bear or wh bear. Still it seems your living in sov space but not just nullbearing there?

Also to add that wth does defending your space gotta do with sov changes. At the moment you still need defend your space or you lose it. Fozziesov does not change that fact.. I mean defending your space not an issue. 3 pilot corps crying that they cant take sov space from 1k pilot alliances are the problem...
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#3986 - 2015-04-23 19:29:52 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Perfect griefer's charter this lot is, PL/BL must be drooling already.


Yep
Jhekarn Hasamura
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3987 - 2015-04-27 13:22:33 UTC
Oh boy.. im looking totaly forward to this chaos..

Today its my Space, tomorrow its his Space the day after its her space - then its everyones space until someone got the space (for just one day)...

gnah - this sounds absolutely funy... - not

Mein Leben in New Eden: Ein Schatten im Nichts.

Kuhal
Crayola Magic
Forsaken Empire.
#3988 - 2015-04-29 04:12:11 UTC
So for setting the timers, will each structure have its own unique modifiable timer? Or will it be an alliance wide?

For example: Can I set the ihub to be 0200 and the TCU to be 0800 or are both just set to one time via whole alliance?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3989 - 2015-05-01 06:15:59 UTC
Kuhal wrote:
So for setting the timers, will each structure have its own unique modifiable timer? Or will it be an alliance wide?

For example: Can I set the ihub to be 0200 and the TCU to be 0800 or are both just set to one time via whole alliance?

As each can only be attacked during the alliance preset 4 hour prime time both would come out some time in the 4 hour alliance preset prime time.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#3990 - 2015-05-01 13:48:26 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Perfect griefer's charter this lot is, PL/BL must be drooling already.


Yep



You've got it totally backwards.

My dream is an army of entosis alts logged offin every high end moon system to continually harass whatever platform mines said high end moon. Keep those things shut down. Grieeeeeeeeeeeeeeef those towers...... errr platforms. When they defend A, then log out and grief B. Keep the moongriefing rolling. Whack a mole gone wild folks! (But.... sir.... we can't defend them all.... there's just too many)

Dream #2 - no one can hold sov long enough to build/replace supers. The player base as a whole will be able to grind that nonsense down to a nub. Crib clubbings will be the new form of supers warfare.

Dream #3 - the endless CTAs to protect vast swaths of entosis griefed space will be the wake up call for the blue donut and everyone (finally) sees the fun and joy involved in giving each other the finger on a grand scale and getting back to the business of BLOWING SHIPS UP. Blue collar pilots w/out a cup under the isk faucet will rise up and take what belongs to them.

Dream #4 - the isk pilers that currently run sov null as a for profit business form somesort of sad sad therapy group where they can discuss at length how, when and where they actually went wrong.

(think Bill Murray here in any number of movies giving one of his classic motivational speeches)

WHO'S WITH ME???

Stragak
#3991 - 2015-05-07 23:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Stragak
What if we did made the entosis link effective on a bell curve? So you can grind it but only like at 5% efficiency. A bell curve similiar to the Eve learning curve. Maybe bottom out at 5%.

http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/straga03/media/Prime%20time.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches". In good humor, and slight annoyance, Boiglio   https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82

James Spacecrawler
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3992 - 2015-05-09 00:42:32 UTC
1)All I heard was ending structure grinding. You could have said giving blowjobs was gonna replace structure grinding and this would still be good news.

2)I have to agree with some of the comments, that It is very difficult. for many people in nullsec to make enough ISK to replace the ships that they lose in PvP. Some of the bigger Alliances can afford a ship replacement program, but the smaller ones are out of luck.

3)I know you have addressed this already, but I hope once these changes are implemented and the role of capital ships gets severely limited that CCP works to redefine the roles of caps and supers, giving us a reason to actually own one.

4)Overall, I like that Alliances have to actively defend their systems. The time zone changes are good because most of the people outside the fleet time zones are usually freeloaders that never attend CTA's anyway.

5)Also, now that this is being implemented, I think all the work done to limit lightyear jumps can be nullified, since Capitals won't be so important anymore.
Lord Valian
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3993 - 2015-05-15 08:38:03 UTC
Greygal wrote:
Need to read this far more closely, but my initial reactions are:

1. I don't see how this helps the little guy take and hold sov space. If anything, it seems to make it even easier for existing sov holders to hold and keep their space. Heck, the one nifty thing about these proposed changes - the Entosis Link, which could be used by little guys - is near on worthless if the only time you can attack something is during their prime time, and NOT during YOUR prime time.

2. I don't see occupancy effects as we've long been hoping and praying for... i.e., the more you use space, the stronger your hold over the space, the less you use space, the less you own it, eventually leading to sov dropping from lack of use. You've addressed (defensive) bonuses to using space, but have not addressed penalties for NOT using your space.

In other words, where is the "use it or lose it" based sov we've been begging for?

3. DETEST the "prime time" concept. Will expand more after I cool off over reading that, but it's pretty much screwed any advantage of having Australian-time-zone strong corps in nullsec. This gives HUGE advantage to the existing blocs. It also takes away any chance of small groups that are active in opponent's low-activity time zones the possibility of attacking and taking over someone else's sov. It takes away any opportunity for two large groups that are not in the same time zone to ever fight on a meaningful level. Most importantly, it essentially kills cross-time-zone teamwork within an alliance. How does making your space absolutely safe 20 hours out of the day encourage conflict?

4. DO like - in fact, love - the freeport bit. ADORE the Freeport idea. Love it.


5. I'm not entirely sure, but right now, I think I like the capture-the-nodes aspect of the changes. I can see how that spreads the fight out over several systems, but also (depending upon constellation layout) makes just hell-camping a single system could be a solid defensive tactic. I like that this makes subcaps (especially fast ones) have a highly useful role in "big" sov fights. I can see how small roving 3rd party gangs could royally screw things up for attackers and defenders (not entirely sure that is good or bad though). (Edit: More I think about it, especially the chasing and fighting aspects, the more I like the command nodes idea.)

6. I don't see how capitals/supers/titans/etc play a role in taking sov anymore. In fact, you could potentially take and hold and defend sov space without any big-boy-toys at all... which does have a certain appeal, I must admit, but if there is NO REASON to use your big-boy-toys, then there is NO REASON TO RISK THEM. Which means less big-boy-toys dying, and that does make me sad. I'm not a fan of capital/super/titan/dread warfare, but I recognize it's something many players really enjoy, and I believe supporting engaging gameplay for the big-boy-toys is vital to Eve's health. And I do like tackling them Big smile


- Get rid of the "prime time" idiocy. Just nuke it. Keep the current reinforcement timer system, where the owner sets what time a structure comes out of reinforced to their prime time, but let us attack at the time of our own choosing.
- Giving defensive bonuses to systems that are actively used is Good Idea™
- But you need to add a penalty to NOT using systems, so that systems that are unused eventually just drop sov, or become ridiculously easy to take.
- How about making those 48 hour timers much shorter in systems that have low activity levels?

Where are the economic improvements? Is that coming this year also? Just curious.

March 4: Okay, 4 more edits/thoughts Lol after reading every word of the next 42 pages of responses:

- If you absolutely must keep the prime time, there are numerous suggestions in the following 42 pages that have prime time based on activity levels in a system/constellation. Building upon ideas I particularly liked in the following pages is to have areas heavily used have very small prime times, and areas hardly used have long (all the way to 24 hours) prime times, making unused systems vulnerable to attack at any time. This suggestion, which I hope you give thought to, addresses many of the issues of the prime time concept, provides cross-time-zone content, is a big advantage to small groups, forces larger groups to pay better attention to their unused systems or drop them, and if those unused systems happen to have nice moons, give potential use for caps/supers.

- Stick to your guns about letting the entosis link be fit on virtually any ship, including interceptors. That's one of the best ideas in the blog, the ensuing hilarity will be epic. Yes, it'll be abused for trolling purposes sometimes, but if you don't have the ability to swarm an area with fast, small ships (maybe they came in through a frigate wormhole?), half of the best part of these changes is wiped out. Sure, it'll be annoying at times, but that's okay! There are far too many ways for people to counter such swarms, including the simplest: Undock and put your own entosis link on the structure to counter.

- Totally agree with the numerous suggestions on the following 42 pages about all forms of industry, including building, research, exploration, etc., affect the industry index. PVP should also be included in the military index. Everything you do in your sov space should count towards improving your occupancy strength.

- Drastically reducing the size of iHubs is vital to the success of this. iHubs will be reinforced and destroyed far more often - which is a Good Thing™ - having a steady supply of iHubs for people to attack is essential to this. Smile


Just wanted to bring more attention to this, in particular the last edits - good post/improvements.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3994 - 2015-05-27 11:03:20 UTC
Okay. I don't post often and I'm nothing but an NPC null noob; but I feel I need to speak up. First off, as pointed out many times before: the timezone idea has *some* merit but 4 hours is definitely not enough. Not by a long shot. Should be at least 12, maybe even 16.

Secondly, enthosis links might be useful tools to controlling your structure, maybe even hacking into it to stir up trouble; yet capturing a system with it? That's a bridge too far. I mean ..... don't we need GUNS anymore? Guns, like... pewpew? -BOOM!- y'know ... shooting? Firefight? Brawl? Firepower, appropriate to the size of the building, should still play a decisive role in the matter. Bring caps, bring battleships, bring HACs; but don't just bring a swarm of Velators for crying out loud! Lol

And finally, here is something that defies logic: an Enthosis ship cannot receive remote assistance, yet it's still completely mobile? Sounds to me like an attempt to force gameplay; either give it a proper propulsion penalty like the HIC's, or allow remote assistance-- but please don't invalidate all shipclasses (such as BC, BS) that benefit more from logistics than from speedtanking. If you only want Enthosis on a certain type of vessel, then come clean and say so immediately.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3995 - 2015-05-27 11:19:53 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Okay. I don't post often and I'm nothing but an NPC null noob; but I feel I need to speak up. First off, as pointed out many times before: the timezone idea has *some* merit but 4 hours is definitely not enough. Not by a long shot. Should be at least 12, maybe even 16.

Secondly, enthosis links might be useful tools to controlling your structure, maybe even hacking into it to stir up trouble; yet capturing a system with it? That's a bridge too far. I mean ..... don't we need GUNS anymore? Guns, like... pewpew? -BOOM!- y'know ... shooting? Firefight? Brawl? Firepower, appropriate to the size of the building, should still play a decisive role in the matter. Bring caps, bring battleships, bring HACs; but don't just bring a swarm of Velators for crying out loud! Lol

And finally, here is something that defies logic: an Enthosis ship cannot receive remote assistance, yet it's still completely mobile? Sounds to me like an attempt to force gameplay; either give it a proper propulsion penalty like the HIC's, or allow remote assistance-- but please don't invalidate all shipclasses (such as BC, BS) that benefit more from logistics than from speedtanking. If you only want Enthosis on a certain type of vessel, then come clean and say so immediately.


At lightly defended areas (not enough defenders/all dock when enemy fills local) fleet of 90% of warp core stabbed interceptors, 5% combat focused interceptors, and 5% Ishtars...

I can already imagine some big block to take Providence with a fleet like that (1000-2000 pilots should be enough).
Kaeden Teresect
New Eden Mining Organisation
The Craftsmen
#3996 - 2015-05-29 07:35:04 UTC
In regards to the perceived "ship size floor" in the current Dominion system: What incentives do people have to sport larger ships for PVP when the battles are not determined by damage/dps? Also doesn't a need for more damage-bigger ships incentivise greater industry focus? So where there is not need for big ships there is less need indy and less need for really anything but buzzing around in a slasher flashing my entonis.

I think the new system has dire economic concerns that relegate large investments to the bold or stupid. Why spend billions of isk and lots of hours working structures and bonuses that can be removed piecemeal by 40 minute encounters with single module (entonis link) and some luck.

Lasty I will put it out their now just so its said, why not make virtual alliances with people and agree that neither side capture a freeport POS so no one has to pay upkeep and everyone wins? Black market anyone?. Stalemates all around!
Ida Aurlien
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#3997 - 2015-06-05 00:37:56 UTC
crazy I know I can read guess ccp has something against reading what customers are saying.... well when u try to change the wheel you will always pay