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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Battleships, and their use

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Paranoid Loyd
#101 - 2015-01-21 17:22:06 UTC
Your ignorance is laughable, keep on keepin' on.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2015-01-21 17:30:15 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Your ignorance is laughable, keep on keepin' on.


So, telling someone that you will simply "mwd away" from a frigate in your Apoc armor tank makes sense to you? Even tho an AB frigate will out speed you, let alone a mwd frigate. But I am ignorant? Baha
Paranoid Loyd
#103 - 2015-01-21 17:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few cycles and then the BS will kill you.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#104 - 2015-01-21 17:33:24 UTC
Chessur wrote:

As you can see, a pirate BS with perfect skills, HG pirate implants, links, and drugs can slightly get around some issues. However it is by no means 'good'. Personally I think its pretty sad how hard I have to try, and how much I have to use to make this ship somewhat useable ingame.... CCPlease!


Pretty much this. You don't have to patch issues with ISK if you choose even T1 cruisers or frigates, piling on the bonuses just makes them better. Especially T2/faction/pirate cruisers go from perfectly viable to excellent when you add the multipliers.

Average skills, basic implants, no links or drugs in a T1 battleship just doesn't have any business undocking.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2015-01-21 17:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few seconds and then the BS will kill you.


Ok and ships like the Apoc, Abaddon and Mega that only have enough highs for guns, you gonna lose a gun to fit a neut just to make it not helpless to the most common ship in the game?

You really don't see me point?
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#106 - 2015-01-21 17:39:20 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit.


Heavy neuts are a viable frigate counter, and it would be great if all the battleships could actually fit them. There are several hulls without a single utility high.

Same goes for the similarly viable dual webs, many hulls simply can't afford that luxury.

+1 slot is one of my solutions to BS issues, along with increase in EHP.

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2015-01-21 17:40:38 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:
The general state of battleships IS rather distressing. I often feel like EVE should just rename itself "world of cruisers."


World of Ishtarceptors

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#108 - 2015-01-21 17:41:28 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few seconds and then the BS will kill you.


Ok and ships like the Apoc, Abaddon and Mega that only have enough highs for guns, you gonna lose a gun to fit a neut just to make it not helpless to the most common ship in the game?

You really don't see me point?


If you are ballsy enough to take them out solo you better believe it. Generally though peeps will just pick a better solo BS rather than trying to use a massively sub-optimal solo boat (though they are great in fleets).

JUSTK is recruiting
Paranoid Loyd
#109 - 2015-01-21 17:47:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Amanda Guido wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few seconds and then the BS will kill you.


Ok and ships like the Apoc, Abaddon and Mega that only have enough highs for guns, you gonna lose a gun to fit a neut just to make it not helpless to the most common ship in the game?

You really don't see me point?

All I see is you thinking every BS should be able to kill anything and everything, the game would not be fun if this were the case as there would be no choice besides BS. You have to remember that they are trying to balance the ships for both small scale PVP as well as large scale (not to mention PVE and niche things like ganking), if they buff them as they need to buff them to be viable as solo boats they would be completely OP for large fleets.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#110 - 2015-01-21 18:58:47 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:

All I see is you thinking every BS should be able to kill anything and everything, the game would not be fun if this were the case as there would be no choice besides BS. You have to remember that they are trying to balance the ships for both small scale PVP as well as large scale (not to mention PVE and niche things like ganking), if they buff them as they need to buff them to be viable as solo boats they would be completely OP for large fleets.


We're in a situation where they aren't viable for solo, small gang or large fleets, so it's really a bit difficult to see how well implemented re-balancing would suddenly make them OP.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2015-01-21 19:00:55 UTC
battleships aren't viable in large fleets?

I shall inform everyone immediately!

Art of Explosions
Paranoid Loyd
#112 - 2015-01-21 19:20:08 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
We're in a situation where they aren't viable for solo, small gang or large fleets, so it's really a bit difficult to see how well implemented re-balancing would suddenly make them OP.
Today there are 50+ kills on the KB for Dominix alone, not sure what you mean by not viable.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#113 - 2015-01-21 19:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
Amanda Guido wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
I'm not biting off more then I can chew. I have seen it happen again and again. One frigate gets under your guns and it's all over. They will shoot down your drones and u will no longer be able to damage them. Even dual webbed, u will not even touch a frigate under 3000m. So how do u plan getting out of that?
You are not arguing with your average pilot that doesn't know how to kill things is all i'm saying. He is one of the few people that posts that doesn't speak above his ability. All of his advice is sound.


I'm sure he is competent. But I know for a fact that without a neut or being a drone boat with drone damage bonuses, you will be helpless to any frigate that comes by. And him telling me that he thinks he can move faster then a frigate with his mwd Apoc is laughable


Please, bring your incursis into thera. Will be there with my plethora of BS ships. We will both warp to some place and i will kill you. Bring plenty of incursis. I will enjoy collecting free kills.

Battleships with any neuting potentional / AB / Speed / webs will kill you easily. Watch ANY big miker video, or some of my BS footage. Most / All BS will fit a heavy neut specifically to deal with frigates. A single heated MWD cycle away on top of a web, is enough transversal to get a shot off, which will volley your frigate.

A navy apoc can heat to 3K/S. which is enough to coast, cut transversal and then volley your frigate with 1 shot. The Apoc that I fly, is a nano apoc. Also the Apoc can use MJDs. Heavy neut just before your cycle your MJD off- your scram goes out. I warp to 100K away, load Scorch- burn back in. At that point I am going to kill you with 800DPS to your face.

You are correct in stating, that if your frigate gets to within a BS with scram, web, and that BS somehow is not packing a heavy neut or a flight of light drones- you will kill it. However any competent BS pilots has a fleet with him (With anti-support ships) or, Flys a BS that can 'deal' with light tackle, they will drop a gun for a heavy neut.

I will bring my nightmare- to fight any frigate of your choice. Watch nightmareX. In it you can see me volloying garmurs, dramiels, dictors.... and other light tackle. I can't wait to fraps your pathetic attempts to kill me in a single frigate.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#114 - 2015-01-21 21:07:32 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
battleships aren't viable in large fleets?

I shall inform everyone immediately!


If you can find someone who still believes large fleets use battleships, please do him a service and inform.

Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Today there are 50+ kills on the KB for Dominix alone, not sure what you mean by not viable.


Over 60, impressive, with only 36 losses.

Helios has 20 kills.

Now go back to the killboards and look at the number of kills the actually viable ships have raked in today.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#115 - 2015-01-21 21:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Amanda Guido wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You will not be able to do anything without cap, any properly fit PVP BS will have at least one neut fit. You will be capped out in a few seconds and then the BS will kill you.


Ok and ships like the Apoc, Abaddon and Mega that only have enough highs for guns, you gonna lose a gun to fit a neut just to make it not helpless to the most common ship in the game?

You really don't see me point?


There are two megathron hulls that can fit neuts. I can also get large blasters to have the tracking of med neutrons so it stands a good chance to hit a webbed frigate. One of my normal fits will deal with destroyers easily enough.
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#116 - 2015-01-21 22:28:48 UTC
I know I'm just a new Capsuleer, but wouldn't a Scorpion class Battleship fitted with a Heavy Neut, 4 HAM Launchers with Rage, a Web, a Scram, a Drone Aug for Drones range, a few Drone Damage Aug's, and a full ECM suite theoretically beat most Frigates and destroyers? I toyed with the idea of using it if i ever needed too.. Just jam your opponent constantly, Web and Scram them, set the Drones and Launchers on them with the Neut.. That would work right? Same with a Raven with enough TP and a Web, and a Heavy Neut.. I have played around with PvP Caldari Battleship builds since i started, and i try and get them to excel at 1-3vs1 Frigates and up.. Though all i have to go off is the current meta and what i have read.. So i am probably wrong, but it should work.. at least if the Frigate pilot isn't a 5 year old vet that knows every trick or someone who has planned against it.. Sorry if I'm wrong..
Provence Tristram
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#117 - 2015-01-21 22:33:39 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Your ignorance is laughable, keep on keepin' on.


Uh... there's videos all over Youtube of people soloing BSes in frigs.
Paranoid Loyd
#118 - 2015-01-21 22:43:13 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Your ignorance is laughable, keep on keepin' on.


Uh... there's videos all over Youtube of people soloing BSes in frigs.

Yep, there sure is, there are also videos of people blapping the crap out of frigs with their BS, what is your point?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2015-01-21 22:44:17 UTC
Alexi Drakenovic wrote:
I know I'm just a new Capsuleer, but wouldn't a Scorpion class Battleship fitted with a Heavy Neut, 4 HAM Launchers with Rage, a Web, a Scram, a Drone Aug for Drones range, a few Drone Damage Aug's, and a full ECM suite theoretically beat most Frigates and destroyers? I toyed with the idea of using it if i ever needed too.. Just jam your opponent constantly, Web and Scram them, set the Drones and Launchers on them with the Neut.. That would work right? Same with a Raven with enough TP and a Web, and a Heavy Neut.. I have played around with PvP Caldari Battleship builds since i started, and i try and get them to excel at 1-3vs1 Frigates and up.. Though all i have to go off is the current meta and what i have read.. So i am probably wrong, but it should work.. at least if the Frigate pilot isn't a 5 year old vet that knows every trick or someone who has planned against it.. Sorry if I'm wrong..



Your stumbling down the right path.

Ironicaly the most deadly anti-frig ship is the rattlesnake.
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#120 - 2015-01-22 00:42:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alexi Drakenovic wrote:
I know I'm just a new Capsuleer, but wouldn't a Scorpion class Battleship fitted with a Heavy Neut, 4 HAM Launchers with Rage, a Web, a Scram, a Drone Aug for Drones range, a few Drone Damage Aug's, and a full ECM suite theoretically beat most Frigates and destroyers? I toyed with the idea of using it if i ever needed too.. Just jam your opponent constantly, Web and Scram them, set the Drones and Launchers on them with the Neut.. That would work right? Same with a Raven with enough TP and a Web, and a Heavy Neut.. I have played around with PvP Caldari Battleship builds since i started, and i try and get them to excel at 1-3vs1 Frigates and up.. Though all i have to go off is the current meta and what i have read.. So i am probably wrong, but it should work.. at least if the Frigate pilot isn't a 5 year old vet that knows every trick or someone who has planned against it.. Sorry if I'm wrong..



Your stumbling down the right path.

Ironicaly the most deadly anti-frig ship is the rattlesnake.


Oh? That is the pirate Drone boat right? I will have to look int that, i was just thinking cause when i ran a test through my EFT and ran the numbers the Scorpion class Battleship seemed to be the obvious choice for BS vs Frigate, especially if it is 1 on 1, and even if it has back up, you have 5 Jammers, so.. Yeah.. Anyways, thanks for the reply! Ill get out of this now so i don't get in the way of this thread with any stupid assumptions or stupid noob questions or mistakes, cheers!