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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#2281 - 2015-01-14 00:30:20 UTC
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, first major update just edited into the OP.

Major changes:

  • We're going to go with a lighter resist profile than originally described, setting all eight recons at the former combat recon resist profile. While we still like the goal of making them more fleet viable, their tank was one of their only stand-out weaknesses and we felt that removing it could make them oppressive at smaller scales. To compensate somewhat we've trimmed 5 more sig radius of each ship.
  • With the Pilgrim we decided to split the difference between neut range and strength by wrapping both into one bonus. The amounts will be smaller than either of the singular bonuses but this should do a nice job of giving more engagement range flexibility while still allowing for plenty of cap pressure.
  • We are going to move one high slot on the Lachesis to a low slot, making armor slightly more viable while still preserving room in the mids for damps as well as long range warp disruption. The damage potential for the Lach is still on par with other combat recons even without the fifth high so we feel this fits better than giving up a mid.
  • The Rook is getting a little more PG fitting room and trading the 5% HAM/HML rate of fire bonus for a 7.5% kinetic missile damage bonus. This is typical Kaalakiota bonus, gives the same number of effective launchers, and favors RLML over the rate of fire bonus.
  • Finally, I will say again that the directional scan immunity is staying, though we are very aware of concerns (especially concerning FW site abuse) and will watch closely to see how this new capability is used and make any necessary adjustments.

    • Have a great Christmas o/



    Ok PG for the rook.. but what is the FIT in your mind for the Huggin? witht hatlimtied PG. And do nto tell me you expect a ship with 40 km webs to use medium AC.


    CCP really just needs to reduce arty fitting. Every ship needs more grid to fit artillery and be viable. If they reduced fitting, then current huginn PG might work with a single PG mod.


    No, recon ship are primary support ship, not solo "lol dscan" pownmobile.


    Then why name them COMBAT recons if you dont intend to apply some form of dps? Why choose a huginn over a rapier? Same slot layout, same resists, and rapier can use missiles, no fitting problem there. It will literally nuke any frig it catches with RLML and then vanish.

    Arty is what makes sense as the supporting weapon, since it synergizes with the web range. Youll probably get 280ish dps with a hi gank arty fit, with below 20k Ehp most likely. the rail lach wont have that issue, and its scram/damp bonus is far worse than the huginn. Itll have superb range, tracking and defense through EWAR. So it might be more favored to solo with.

    Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

    Make the Muninn great again!
    Mario Putzo
    #2282 - 2015-01-14 03:34:36 UTC
    Any plans on increasing HM damage application so the Rook can actually be useful. We only get 2 rig slots on it, and stand lose 50% damage just through application because you made HMs ****.
    Paynus Maiassus
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #2283 - 2015-01-14 04:16:37 UTC
    Proteus is live and the Combat Recons are DSCAN immune. Has Eve been ruined?
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #2284 - 2015-01-14 04:28:50 UTC
    Paynus Maiassus wrote:
    Proteus is live and the Combat Recons are DSCAN immune. Has Eve been ruined?


    well, we just tried to fight two combat recons with two combat recons but we could not find each other for 20mins.

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
    Nevyn Auscent
    Broke Sauce
    #2285 - 2015-01-14 05:07:06 UTC
    If only people had pushed CCP to give them a probe launcher fitting bonus so they could 'recon' without utterly ruining the rest of their fit......
    Then you could have probed each other.
    PastyWhiteDevil
    Wilderness
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
    #2286 - 2015-01-14 06:00:33 UTC
    I've come to the conclusion that we should make the arazu roden and make the lach creodron. I mean who doesn't want a lachtar?
    TuCZnak
    Cyber Dong Industries
    #2287 - 2015-01-14 07:11:40 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    If only people had pushed CCP to give them a probe launcher fitting bonus so they could 'recon' without utterly ruining the rest of their fit......
    Then you could have probed each other.

    If only devs didn't stop reading this thread weeks ago without considering most of the feedback here...
    Jeremiah Saken
    The Fall of Leviathan
    #2288 - 2015-01-14 07:35:42 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    If only people had pushed CCP to give them a probe launcher fitting bonus so they could 'recon' without utterly ruining the rest of their fit......
    Then you could have probed each other.

    Sit without moving in d-scannles ship, to probe for a fight with ships that don't show on d-scan and also sit still. Probing without d-scan...sweet summer childs. You may find pve pilots that way or pilots that want to be find. Whole idea on d-scann immunity would be crap, wouldn't it? People want to fight and can't find themselfs Lol

    "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
    Syzygium
    Ventures Bar
    #2289 - 2015-01-14 10:38:22 UTC
    Paynus Maiassus wrote:
    Proteus is live and the Combat Recons are DSCAN immune. Has Eve been ruined?

    Nobody said EvE would be ruined as a whole.

    On the other hand, it took me like 5 minutes after login to farm the first guy who dared to warp to a plex in his cruiser. Not a lot he could do after landing on grid, being pointed and neuted.
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/43843780/

    Spoke with other guys who tried the same and its hilarious what an easy meatgrinder CCP gave us pirates. Thanks a lot for buffing us gankers and showing the finger to every Beginner who cannot afford to bring a Probing-Alt to before making any step in Lowsec. Well done.
    Jeremiah Saken
    The Fall of Leviathan
    #2290 - 2015-01-14 10:44:51 UTC
    Syzygium wrote:
    Spoke with other guys who tried the same and its hilarious what an easy meatgrinder CCP gave us pirates. Thanks a lot for buffing us gankers and showing the finger to every Beginner who cannot afford to bring a Probing-Alt to before making any step in Lowsec. Well done.

    As i thought and was easy predicted. Those ships will be ganking monsters. Game of alts incoming, just the oppossite what Rise wanted to do.

    "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
    Apocalypse Solar
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #2291 - 2015-01-14 11:13:46 UTC
    Jeremiah Saken wrote:
    As i thought and was easy predicted. Those ships will be ganking monsters. Game of alts incoming, just the oppossite what Rise wanted to do.


    I think anyone with half a brain knew how this d-scan immunity idea would turn out, clearly CCP did not think this one through fully.

    Speaking as a player who does not engage in much small gang or fleet activity ... the real problem with this is not many solo ships can run expanded probe launcher without severely gimping their fits.

    Some saw this as a threat to their playstyle (Solo Plexers in FW for example), but there were others who could see the ridiculous ganking potential of a d-scan invisible ship and were rubbing their hands with glee in anticipation.

    Most of this feedback has been largely ignored.

    In FW environments most combat is carried out by pilots in frigates / destroyers and occasionally cruiser hulls, so if you want to avoid a plex gank by a combat recon(s) you have to be extra cautious to get a visual when checking out a novice or small plex entrance, entering a medium is a huge risk unless you are suicidal, or already fit to counter combat recons.

    Also due to plex rewards mechanics people do not usually blob cap FW plexes, unless they specifically intend to do so.

    Anyway, what is clear is that this is a definite nerf to solo play styles, and does not really affect those who have a group centric play style.

    I am pretty sure the (un)intended side effect of this change will be more alt prober accounts, and CCP knew that was always a possibility and pushed ahead with the idea.
    Jeremiah Saken
    The Fall of Leviathan
    #2292 - 2015-01-14 11:45:13 UTC
    Apocalypse Solar wrote:
    I am pretty sure the (un)intended side effect of this change will be more alt prober accounts, and CCP knew that was always a possibility and pushed ahead with the idea.

    It's quite the oppossite what Rise want to achieve. All those: ppl have too much intel, they don't jump into fight if they know to much etc. What we will have now? People will be training more alts to get even more intel. Frankly, if you need more than one ingame character to play this game effectively it's insane. There are no all in one ships in these game and expanded launcher eat high amount of ships fitting resources. Now we will possibly have ban for recons in FW.

    "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
    Celestia Via
    Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
    Ushra'Khan
    #2293 - 2015-01-14 12:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Celestia Via
    Alt probing account is a solution? Does it keep me safe while fighting c3 sites solo?

    It takes less time for an experienced assailant to find me and warp to the site than the actual scan time of the probe, let alone alt-tabbing while fighting sleepers. How often can I combat scan while dual boxing?

    And what about the actual me, who cant afford a second account? Oh, I know! lets just go back to highsec, dock and run missions!
    And since all solo wh and lowsec plex activity will drop to nothing soon, gankers will be running out of easy targets.
    Lets make combat recons immune to CONCORD as well, so they can gank in highsec missions! That will be fun!

    Sorry about all the irony above but it really gets to me, how stupidly unfair the dscan immunity is.


    Syzygium wrote:

    On the other hand, it took me like 5 minutes after login to farm the first guy who dared to warp to a plex in his cruiser. Not a lot he could do after landing on grid, being pointed and neuted.
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/43843780/

    Spoke with other guys who tried the same and its hilarious what an easy meatgrinder CCP gave us pirates. Thanks a lot for buffing us gankers and showing the finger to every Beginner who cannot afford to bring a Probing-Alt to before making any step in Lowsec. Well done.



    Even the pirates themselves admit it, at least the ones who actually have a sense of fairness and arent in it just for the
    "wtfpwnzrz" laughs.

    "We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
    Kalihira
    Ultramar Independent Contracting
    #2294 - 2015-01-14 13:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalihira
    Celestia Via wrote:
    Alt probing account is a solution? Does it keep me safe while fighting c3 sites solo?

    It takes less time for an experienced assailant to find me and warp to the site than the actual scan time of the probe, let alone alt-tabbing while fighting sleepers. How often can I combat scan while dual boxing?

    And what about the actual me, who cant afford a second account? Oh, I know! lets just go back to highsec, dock and run missions!
    And since all solo wh and lowsec plex activity will drop to nothing soon, gankers will be running out of easy targets.
    Lets make combat recons immune to CONCORD as well, so they can gank in highsec missions! That will be fun!

    Sorry about all the irony above but it really gets to me, how stupidly unfair the dscan immunity is.


    Syzygium wrote:

    On the other hand, it took me like 5 minutes after login to farm the first guy who dared to warp to a plex in his cruiser. Not a lot he could do after landing on grid, being pointed and neuted.
    https://zkillboard.com/kill/43843780/

    Spoke with other guys who tried the same and its hilarious what an easy meatgrinder CCP gave us pirates. Thanks a lot for buffing us gankers and showing the finger to every Beginner who cannot afford to bring a Probing-Alt to before making any step in Lowsec. Well done.




    Even the pirates themselves admit it, at least the ones who actually have a sense of fairness and arent in it just for the
    "wtfpwnzrz" laughs.


    /wave, its an awesome tool now. That dscan immunity makes it op for that kind of work. I still feel that its a totally unnecessary buff to the combat recons.
    Hell, my shield fit lach is friggin cap stable with invul/em ward, mwd, long point and damp running, and last long enough with 4 250 shooting too. Haven't tested with longer range ammo yet, which uses less cap. But a (nearly) cap stable 43k ehp, 1800m/s, 300 dps ship is good enough allready. It really doesnt need the ganking gimmick...
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #2295 - 2015-01-14 19:42:14 UTC
    medium plexes
    http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
    Jeremiah Saken
    The Fall of Leviathan
    #2296 - 2015-01-14 20:06:04 UTC
    Bienator II wrote:
    medium plexes
    http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png

    Big smile we told you Rise.

    "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
    Mario Putzo
    #2297 - 2015-01-14 20:23:20 UTC
    RIP in Peace FW.
    Stitch Kaneland
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #2298 - 2015-01-14 20:47:36 UTC
    Bienator II wrote:
    medium plexes
    http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png


    Note to self. Do not warp into medium plexes when Bienator is in local.

    Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

    Make the Muninn great again!
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #2299 - 2015-01-14 21:13:07 UTC
    Jeremiah Saken wrote:
    Bienator II wrote:
    medium plexes
    http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png

    Big smile we told you Rise.

    Solution: mob the **** out of them with a frig fleet and shower yourself and your buds with expensive killmails. Just be sure to send the right guys in beforehand to get point...
    Syzygium
    Ventures Bar
    #2300 - 2015-01-14 21:37:17 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Jeremiah Saken wrote:
    Bienator II wrote:
    medium plexes
    http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png

    Big smile we told you Rise.

    Solution: mob the **** out of them with a frig fleet and shower yourself and your buds with expensive killmails. Just be sure to send the right guys in beforehand to get point...

    What *exactly* is your idea for warping into that plex that can tackle one of these Recons long enough for your support to arrive while being neuted, jammed, damped and webbed?

    A triple-ECCMed, triple-Sensorboosted, dualcapboosted, dual 1600mm plated, 100MN AB Cynabal maybe?

    Oh wait... there could be a medslot/powergid problem.

    On the other hand, what again was your solution for the SOLO (!!!!!!!!!!) beginner who wants to join LowSec FW in his first Frig/Destroyer/Cruiser? Ah wait...: "Don't do FW in Lowsec until you can come with a 10+ Gang!"

    Yeah thats a great idea, because the concept of "just bring the blob" is what everyone out there wants and needs for having a fun time in Blob Online...