Test Server Feedback

Also same for the Rigs, people wasted time to train them to be able to use T2 rigs,
ccp should at least refund the SP or the time spent on training to what ever skill they change,
as people are paying Subscriptions

guys. please. We are all visibly upset- but STOP ASKING FOR SP REFUNDS. It's already been stated that it WON'T happen- and you are greyscale's time when he kindly said he would take the time to address our concerns before crius. Be a little constructive, please. I, Too, feel an outrage about a lot of my skills being invalidated- but we can either waste time crying about it and telling them we want something that isn't going to happen, or we can put our heads together and think of an effective solution that doesn't involve things CCP says they aren't going to do.

There have already been some great ideas in this thread. Lets elaborate on those, and maybe throw around some support on THOSE instead, so we can get something accomplished before this just becomes another trainwreck. We are screaming at the devs that theyre doing their job wrong- but we arent really being that good of a customer base right now, either.

Constructivism, please.

Why don't you turn the skill, in addition to the 1-5% faster manufacturing, to something similar to custom code expertise?

"Reduce the influence of the system activity index on your jobs by 1-5% if you are building on a pos."

It wont make the skill "a must have" for a novice industrialist, but specialized industrialists that build stuff in their station will want it to 5 for sure.

If I had to pick just one of these, the job time reduction. I'd err on the low end as otherwise you could end up with unintended consequences around null sec outposts with their very high time reductions already.
It won't personally do much to me, as I don't have any BPO's researching atm due to the capital cost of getting new BPO's. But when I do get new BPO's it will be significant then.

Industry already has a very large number of skills around invention, so unless this number is getting reduced with the Invention overhaul I'd be wary of adding in more skills to the industry tree. So any additional skills I feel should only be looked at along side the invention overhaul to ensure that Industrialists aren't getting overloaded with so many specialist skills it takes forever to break into a specialist market.

Sounds good, much better than hoped. Once the release hits TQ I'll start doin some brainstorming to that end as well. (don't have the room to add another copy of eve atm)

Yup, that's my current thinking.

- We fully understand the issue about short jobs; the reason an "all industry jobs" skill seems more universally valuable is that it includes blueprint research, which at higher levels offers a fairly clear benefit for everyone on the vast majority of blueprints.
- The problem with a workforce cost reduction is finding x that satisfies both constraints you mention - the costs are already pitched at "as low as we can make them while remaining relevant", so reducing them further is a difficult thing to balance.

...and are eg inventing things with very short invention times, yeah, at that point it gets pretty flaky. We are intending to catch at least the invention case in the near future, by allowing you to do multiple consecutive invention jobs, but I doubt that catches all the edge cases. If there are others, I'd be happy to have a look at them and see if we can mitigate that if people can list them out.

And yes, we can fake cost shifts, but that will need a bit more time to think through and manage nicely. Might well come with the advanced skills we're looking into!

You can obviously better estimate the impact of SCI on TQ than we can from playing on the test server with its highly skewed numbers. All I would say is that any reduction in job costs needn't be large to be significant to the players and that, as a cumulative modifier, a 5% reduction would be worth a lot less in real ISK in a sleepy backwater than in a busy industrial hub and so shouldn't tilt the market too much.

I thought about suggesting batch jobs, but that smacks too much of EVE-offline for my taste...

I'm not sure what the problem with faking cost shifts is? The vast majority of people already doing Industry will have ME5 right now, so upping the job cost by 5% and giving a 1%-per-level discount will leave New Eden just as is, minus (most of) the torches and pitchforks :-) And should be relatively trivial to do by altering the "adjusted material cost" used in the calculation (so you don't have an ugly "1.05" in the formula). That 5% will hardly be a bar to new Industry entrants without the skill -- they can easily cover that by shopping around for materials, picking a cheaper manufacturing base, or selling smarter.

There should be a skill that takes appreciable time to learn from 4 to 5, that differentiates the professional Industrialist from the hobbiest, and gives significant benefit to those who spend the time. ME was that skill, its replacement isn't.

Oh, and if that sounds too much like a giant whine -- looking forward to tomorrow. Interesting times (urinating dog).

By the same token a team bonus is going to mean very little to people in systems that don't have enough going on to attract a team to begin with.