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Rorqual - I missed the fanfest stream.

First post First post
Author
Tibi
#121 - 2014-07-10 12:16:57 UTC
So easy to solve this it's not even funny.

RISK:
- Reduce Core Cycle to 2 or 3 seconds. Core creates risk for rorqual that causes its max_velocity = 0. This means Rorq will need full align time to gtfo (or 2x 100mwd time or instadoublewebwarp). And kill the heavy water stupidity while at it. It's really not fun game play and serves nothing but to annoy.
- Increase align time to 60 seconds.

BONUSES:
- Maintenance bay that can target itself. Swap them lows to WCS if you can do it fast enough. And other stuff.
- Core mode creates grid effect (if CCP hasn't fixed this code by now, I am not sure why we're even discussing rorq revamp).
- Core off grid effects: same as now
- Core on grid effect:

  • can use 6 links: 3 mining, 3 shield. 8 total high slots for either additional tractors or reps.
  • EITHER 1) increase ongrid link bonuses by ca 100% (mining bonus 202% when maxed- currently it's 101%).
  • OR 2) create a remote module like remote sensor booster, that when used on a friendly miner, it increases his yield dramatically for the above same bonus.


This will give initiative to fly rorqs far more often into belts to support miners. (I would do so happily any day or time of day ... except if there was another titanomachy being in works in the adjacent system )
Bottom line: that's a 2 bil ship I'd take to belt and sit it there.

Another fun fact: if you give fewer bonuses than described, we will not be seeing the dramatic increase of these ships in belts that was hoped for. => less piratey pew pew. =>Less happy customers accross the board.


You *could also add:
- Immunity to warp bubble.
BUT in this case, increase the paragraph 1 RISK to:
Increase mass 10 times to kill mwd cycled warp and increase align time to 75seconds.
This way +4 warp scramble str is needed to 100% stop that rorq from gtfo-ing. But IMO, that ability is worth more than 2 bil isk per capital hull.

And no, POS-rorq is not needed and rorq-rock-crunchmuncher also not.

-

Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
Capital Interstellar Group
#122 - 2014-07-10 16:31:32 UTC
Tibi wrote:
So easy to solve this it's not even funny.

RISK:
- Reduce Core Cycle to 2 or 3 seconds. Core creates risk for rorqual that causes its max_velocity = 0. This means Rorq will need full align time to gtfo (or 2x 100mwd time or instadoublewebwarp). And kill the heavy water stupidity while at it. It's really not fun game play and serves nothing but to annoy.
- Increase align time to 60 seconds.

BONUSES:
- Maintenance bay that can target itself. Swap them lows to WCS if you can do it fast enough. And other stuff.
- Core mode creates grid effect (if CCP hasn't fixed this code by now, I am not sure why we're even discussing rorq revamp).
- Core off grid effects: same as now
- Core on grid effect:

  • can use 6 links: 3 mining, 3 shield. 8 total high slots for either additional tractors or reps.
  • EITHER 1) increase ongrid link bonuses by ca 100% (mining bonus 202% when maxed- currently it's 101%).
  • OR 2) create a remote module like remote sensor booster, that when used on a friendly miner, it increases his yield dramatically for the above same bonus.


This will give initiative to fly rorqs far more often into belts to support miners. (I would do so happily any day or time of day ... except if there was another titanomachy being in works in the adjacent system )
Bottom line: that's a 2 bil ship I'd take to belt and sit it there.

Another fun fact: if you give fewer bonuses than described, we will not be seeing the dramatic increase of these ships in belts that was hoped for. => less piratey pew pew. =>Less happy customers accross the board.


You *could also add:
- Immunity to warp bubble.
BUT in this case, increase the paragraph 1 RISK to:
Increase mass 10 times to kill mwd cycled warp and increase align time to 75seconds.
This way +4 warp scramble str is needed to 100% stop that rorq from gtfo-ing. But IMO, that ability is worth more than 2 bil isk per capital hull.

And no, POS-rorq is not needed and rorq-rock-crunchmuncher also not.


OK so you're idea is to give the Rorq a bunch more bonuses to entice people to take it into belts and as added defense remove the 5-minute siege and give it in-fight refitting? The challenge that this gives any group to put together a fairly small fleet that can take out the Rorq is quite slight. If you fit WCS in the lows you're going to lose IStabs, and if you fit astronautics rigs for align time you're going to lose tank. Basically the only thing this does is force the attackers to bring a few tacklers and a cyno boat for the dreads that will kill this thing in 30 seconds anyway.

Sure, you'll be one of the many who will take this thing into a belt driven by the lust of the big bonuses you recommend. Then your Rorq will die. Then you'll bring another one and it will die. Then you'll bring another one and it will die. Then you'll be out of money and won't bring another one. No more Rorqual in belt. Your suggestion will do nothing but make the tears for not being able to use the Rorq's bonuses all the more bitter.
Tibi
#123 - 2014-07-10 22:16:49 UTC
Ships die. Who knew. For some reason I thought that was the point of EVE.

With my idea it takes 1 ship to tackle the rorq. Unless the rorq pilot is watching local. In which case that one ship in EVE that could have tackled him can't do it in time.

Learn your game. It's not that hard.

-

Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
Capital Interstellar Group
#124 - 2014-07-11 03:09:12 UTC
Tibi wrote:
Ships die. Who knew. For some reason I thought that was the point of EVE.

With my idea it takes 1 ship to tackle the rorq. Unless the rorq pilot is watching local. In which case that one ship in EVE that could have tackled him can't do it in time.

Learn your game. It's not that hard.


Shooting fish in a barrel is indeed and quite unfortunately a large part of Eve content. However, the ideal and most satisfying content is when two opposing forces engage each other, each with a chance of winning.

I understand where you're coming from and where those who propose buff like yours are coming from. For instance, the carrier ratter does indeed sit naked in space at anomalies or signatures with a 2-3 billion ISK ship. So do blinged out Marauder ratters. Yes, there is a chance that CCP will opt for a buff like yours and basically put a mining expedition in the same category as a carrier ratter.

However, this will result in the Rorqual only being of benefit to the Goons and others like them surrounded by an infinite sea of blues and with a counter drop at the ready at all times. For the Rorqual to be usable in the much less secure low sec, particularly in the numerous ice systems where there is no station to dock up in, and for it to be usable for smaller independent care bear operations, a more solid solution is warranted. Your solution will basically create a Rorqual that will dock up at the first sight of a neut in local (and it will only operate in places where it can dock up). My solution will create a mining expedition that is tough enough, and sufficiently less rewarding for PvPers, to prevent any old piece of crap camper from even bothering to jack with it. It will create a mining group that actually will be confident enough to just keep on mining when foreign traffic is poking around. The Rorqual will present a nigh indestructible defensive base, and the miners will just be considering the risk of their exhumers. This will actually GENERATE content because miners will be tempted to keep mining in more situations and therefore present themselves as targets for the really skilled and properly outfitted group of PvPers who wants to take on a tough PvP target for the chance to get a few exhumer kills.

And no, the point of Eve is to make ISK for some, and to get kills for others, and to play politics for others still. I don't think many players would be willing to say that losing ships is directly the point of Eve. It's an unsavory consequence. However, if losing ships is why you play Eve, go ahead and keep recommending your buff. You'll be free to lose Rorquals every day if they adopt it.

Oh and if you missed my recommendation, it is here.
Marox Calendale
Voices of War - Research and Production
Evictus.
#125 - 2014-07-11 07:57:31 UTC
Tibi wrote:
Ships die. Who knew. For some reason I thought that was the point of EVE.

With my idea it takes 1 ship to tackle the rorq. Unless the rorq pilot is watching local. In which case that one ship in EVE that could have tackled him can't do it in time.

Learn your game. It's not that hard.

Same to you. Just be informed that there are several areas in Eve which don´t have any local, where a new entrance directly to the system can blob up every second and where you only have about 30 - 60 seconds to escape, after the new entrance was opened. If it will only need 1 small ship to tackle a rorqual, no one will use it in a belt in a wormhole.
GsyBoy
Doomheim
#126 - 2014-07-11 12:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: GsyBoy
Had a thought...bounuses which cycle like a cloaking device, i.e. can turn off instantly and a cloak. Can position on grid, close enough to use tractor beams however not in the direction of celestrial.

https://www.twitch.tv/gsyboy

Lilith Shea
Multiplex Gaming
The Bastion
#127 - 2014-07-11 14:22:11 UTC
The problem isn't coming up with a "fix" to make the rorqual a desirable ship to use in belts. It's coming up with a solution that will convince a pilot that the bonuses it gives outweigh the cost of losing that ship. We all know don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Well as a Rorqual pilot, I have no intention of ever moving one out of a POS because simply, I earn no ISK flying a Rorqual. I basically bought one because I like helping my corpies out. Does it justify the 2b price tag.... no way! Could I charge for my boosting services... I suppose. But why should I need to. Even if I do, I'm still paying a monthly sub to have an account AFK boost. Sure I may make some "passive" ISK but not enough to PLEX an account.

Bottom line is the Rorqual needs a way to do what it was designed (boost, serve as a mini-hub, compress, haul) but also allow the pilot to actually play the game. Giving is ridiculous buffs like its own POS shield, or fighter drones, or insta-warp with re-fitting capabilities it's a solution. It's just a way to make this ship blingier and more of a target. I think of it in smaller terms to make sense of it.

In High Sec, you use a Hulk. Why? Because the added security allows for less tank and more m3 /hr.
In Low/Null/W-space you use a Covetor. Why? Because it gets you 80% of the yield with a much cheaper price tag.

Going by the logic, it would make more sense to say Rorqual should be a High Sec ship and the Orca should be Null. Is that the solution, maybe. I doubt it, because the utility of the Rorqual is what makes it a Null ship. The easiest way to remedy this problem is to reduce the cost of constructing a Rorqual, and give it the ability to actually do something. This way a pilot would be more inclined to take one out into a belt because not only can they earn ISK themselves, it also won't hurt as much to lose one. It's already got a ton of tank and utility. It should only be used when you have people online to help support it.

If you make it less boring... they will come





TL;DR
Rorqual is easy to make OP.... solution should be simple Step 1 - Make Rorqual less expensive to fly, Step 2 - Make Rorqual able to generate ISK, Step3 - Profit. Fill in the blanks.........
Lucky Sliver
Silver Colt Logistics
#128 - 2014-07-11 23:52:59 UTC
Idk if this has been suggested already,

Just make it cheaper to produce. If it wasn't 2.5B pilots wouldn't be as concerned with losing it:

Bump it down to a Battleship class vessel. Keep the siege mode and have it function similar to a Marauder. Less expensive, more mobile, easier to pilot, access to highsec.
Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#129 - 2014-07-12 10:41:08 UTC
SO
According to these posts the dominant majority of peoples ideas are really OP and I honestly don't believe would do any good for the game, especially in regards to balancing and the role of the Rorqual. Here are my thoughts on some of the proposed ideas/

1. The rorqual should not be able to suddenly change its mind when you deploy it, just like dreadnoughts, carriers, or Marauders when you click that button your committing to the fact that there is a significant chance you will lose your ship because of it. If you press that button your signing the "terms and conditions" so to speak, and you have to abide by what that contract says, which in this case is 4-5 minutes of immobility. And if there are bad things happening, then you have to deal with it.

2. The rorqual should be able to apply decent DPS to punch back at an attacker and repair amounts when deployed as well as compressing the ore and giving people the super links the rorqual is known for. HOWEVER you must be careful it doesn't become as good or better then a triage carrier, balance is key. and the rorqual should not be able to outshine anything in that regard / role.

Of the proposed ideas this one works best, it can repair barges and exhumers rapidly, tank small roaming groups and undesirable NPC rats while still doing its job. again its all a matter of balance.

3. Some people proposed making the rorqual what appears to be a station ship. Giving it massive EHP, and ( at least this is how i read this part ) a reinforcement timer so that if it gets hotdropped it can laugh at the attackers who now cannot touch it and will merely sit there waiting for help for a set amount of time.

NO NO NO NO NO. Titans don't even get this kind of option so why on gods earth should the Rorqual? if you get hotdropped you will die, unless you had a better counter drop ready or tanked the droppers until reinforcements arrived. this idea is utterly horrible and should never even be considered in my opinion. If you want to be safe from hotdroppers, roaming gangs, and things that go bump in the shadows dock in the station with your head between your legs.

4. Reduce the rorquals build cost to make it disposable

I'm sorry what? Cheap capital ships aren't really a thing if you want something that can give links like that, compress ore, carry that much, and carry your mining fleet plus jump clones your going to pay out the nose for it if you want it badly enough. and given the fact rorquals still sell i would say people do want it even at its current price.

5. Cloaky rorquals

Fit a cloak if you want but cloaking when your deployed is not allowed and shouldn't be, also cloaking is a pain when you tractor in cans or have barges sitting around you or someone warps in on you. Your not exactly small so you'll probably end up with a decloak off some pointless object or a rat spawning in. Also No warping cloaked in a rorqual, its far from a covops, maybe if you ask nicely CCP will give you cloaky miners following in the Prospect's footsteps.

6. Increase align time and acceleration.

I have few issues with this, but i still believe that it should warp slightly slower than a nano freighter even when nano fit. This avoids it being able to align and warp like the old nano battleships, and gives players in fast tackle the chance to get it. A skilled prober who knows beforehand where the rorqual is going to be will have time to drop probes, place them where it is, run the scan and warp in for tackle with no issues while the rorqual pilot will be able to align and warp away in much improved space of time over what they have now.

7. MOAR LINKS ( And highslots to make that happen )

If you want to run shield and mining links get a vulture in fleet, it will boost better than the rorqual since its specialized to do that. No need for you to be running 6 links with an industrial core and utility slot.

8. Bubble immunity

No, just no. If you get bubbled only 2 different types of ships get to warp away, ceptors and nullified T3's, the second you add capital ships to that list you broke Eve.
Bubbles = Infinite Points, No escape.

9. Capital mining mods

I also have no issues with a capital strip miner or a capital ice harvester. in fact adding mining ability would make it more belt worthy than it is now. Plus that means there might be solo mining rorquals to kill!

Again those were just my thoughts on some of the ideas posted here, MY IDEA would be a mix of the marginally increased align time, addition of capital mining mods, Increase the rep power and tank of it to levels just about 20% below a triage carrier, and weaponize the drones more to punch things in the face, maybe a larger boost to drone Hitpoints so they dont all die to DPS frigs in 2 volleys.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#130 - 2014-07-12 10:42:21 UTC
Lucky Sliver wrote:
Idk if this has been suggested already,

Just make it cheaper to produce. If it wasn't 2.5B pilots wouldn't be as concerned with losing it:

Bump it down to a Battleship class vessel. Keep the siege mode and have it function similar to a Marauder. Less expensive, more mobile, easier to pilot, access to highsec.


No Its a capital ship, what your asking is literally flying in the face of the whole point of the thing it does. Besides you now get an ore compression POS mod, no need to be greedy and get the links it gives to high sec miner bears too.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#131 - 2014-07-12 10:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
Lilith Shea wrote:
The problem isn't coming up with a "fix" to make the rorqual a desirable ship to use in belts. It's coming up with a solution that will convince a pilot that the bonuses it gives outweigh the cost of losing that ship. We all know don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Well as a Rorqual pilot, I have no intention of ever moving one out of a POS because simply, I earn no ISK flying a Rorqual. I basically bought one because I like helping my corpies out. Does it justify the 2b price tag.... no way! Could I charge for my boosting services... I suppose. But why should I need to. Even if I do, I'm still paying a monthly sub to have an account AFK boost. Sure I may make some "passive" ISK but not enough to PLEX an account.

Bottom line is the Rorqual needs a way to do what it was designed (boost, serve as a mini-hub, compress, haul) but also allow the pilot to actually play the game. Giving is ridiculous buffs like its own POS shield, or fighter drones, or insta-warp with re-fitting capabilities it's a solution. It's just a way to make this ship blingier and more of a target. I think of it in smaller terms to make sense of it.

In High Sec, you use a Hulk. Why? Because the added security allows for less tank and more m3 /hr.
In Low/Null/W-space you use a Covetor. Why? Because it gets you 80% of the yield with a much cheaper price tag.

Going by the logic, it would make more sense to say Rorqual should be a High Sec ship and the Orca should be Null. Is that the solution, maybe. I doubt it, because the utility of the Rorqual is what makes it a Null ship. The easiest way to remedy this problem is to reduce the cost of constructing a Rorqual, and give it the ability to actually do something. This way a pilot would be more inclined to take one out into a belt because not only can they earn ISK themselves, it also won't hurt as much to lose one. It's already got a ton of tank and utility. It should only be used when you have people online to help support it.

If you make it less boring... they will come

TL;DR
Rorqual is easy to make OP.... solution should be simple Step 1 - Make Rorqual less expensive to fly, Step 2 - Make Rorqual able to generate ISK, Step3 - Profit. Fill in the blanks.........



Rorqual is a capital, capitals are expensive and shouldn't cost less. If you got a rorqual to AFK boost you knew it wasnt going to be making ISK, instead the ore everyone else mines does it for the rorqual pilot. But i agree when you say that it needs to do something, someone suggested a capital mining mod and a buff to its scan res to make it decent to mine alongside its barge counterparts. And i would say if it did it well enough it would be worth putting it in the belts again.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Christopher Mabata
Cynosural Edge
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#132 - 2014-07-12 10:51:46 UTC
Oh and while i'm here, when this change comes about please make sure you take away the ability of a rorqual to boost in a POS ( Maybe the Orca as well ) this will Force rorqual pilots to choose 1 of 3 options after the change is implemented, and makes them suffer the same fate command ships now do ( Althout command ships kick ass now too )

1. RIsk it by boosting in the belts or deployed outside of a POS, or in darkspace. either way it can die

2. Sit in the shield compressing ore, making clones, and QQ' ing on Forums

3. Haul it to low sec, strip it down and sell it for parts.

Again this should come with the changes, i'm not suggesting this happen on its own

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#133 - 2014-07-12 17:12:52 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
A skilled prober who knows beforehand where the rorqual is going to be will have time to drop probes


If it's to be used in field, it'll probably be at one of the anoms that don't need any probing whatsoever these days.
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
Capital Interstellar Group
#134 - 2014-07-12 22:19:55 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
SO
According to these posts the dominant majority of peoples ideas are really OP and I honestly don't believe would do any good for the game, especially in regards to balancing and the role of the Rorqual. Here are my thoughts on some of the proposed ideas/

1. The rorqual should not be able to suddenly change its mind when you deploy it, just like dreadnoughts, carriers, or Marauders when you click that button your committing to the fact that there is a significant chance you will lose your ship because of it. If you press that button your signing the "terms and conditions" so to speak, and you have to abide by what that contract says, which in this case is 4-5 minutes of immobility. And if there are bad things happening, then you have to deal with it.

2. The rorqual should be able to apply decent DPS to punch back at an attacker and repair amounts when deployed as well as compressing the ore and giving people the super links the rorqual is known for. HOWEVER you must be careful it doesn't become as good or better then a triage carrier, balance is key. and the rorqual should not be able to outshine anything in that regard / role.

Of the proposed ideas this one works best, it can repair barges and exhumers rapidly, tank small roaming groups and undesirable NPC rats while still doing its job. again its all a matter of balance.

3. Some people proposed making the rorqual what appears to be a station ship. Giving it massive EHP, and ( at least this is how i read this part ) a reinforcement timer so that if it gets hotdropped it can laugh at the attackers who now cannot touch it and will merely sit there waiting for help for a set amount of time.

NO NO NO NO NO. Titans don't even get this kind of option so why on gods earth should the Rorqual? if you get hotdropped you will die, unless you had a better counter drop ready or tanked the droppers until reinforcements arrived. this idea is utterly horrible and should never even be considered in my opinion. If you want to be safe from hotdroppers, roaming gangs, and things that go bump in the shadows dock in the station with your head between your legs.

4. Reduce the rorquals build cost to make it disposable

I'm sorry what? Cheap capital ships aren't really a thing if you want something that can give links like that, compress ore, carry that much, and carry your mining fleet plus jump clones your going to pay out the nose for it if you want it badly enough. and given the fact rorquals still sell i would say people do want it even at its current price.

5. Cloaky rorquals

Fit a cloak if you want but cloaking when your deployed is not allowed and shouldn't be, also cloaking is a pain when you tractor in cans or have barges sitting around you or someone warps in on you. Your not exactly small so you'll probably end up with a decloak off some pointless object or a rat spawning in. Also No warping cloaked in a rorqual, its far from a covops, maybe if you ask nicely CCP will give you cloaky miners following in the Prospect's footsteps.

6. Increase align time and acceleration.

I have few issues with this, but i still believe that it should warp slightly slower than a nano freighter even when nano fit. This avoids it being able to align and warp like the old nano battleships, and gives players in fast tackle the chance to get it. A skilled prober who knows beforehand where the rorqual is going to be will have time to drop probes, place them where it is, run the scan and warp in for tackle with no issues while the rorqual pilot will be able to align and warp away in much improved space of time over what they have now.

7. MOAR LINKS ( And highslots to make that happen )

If you want to run shield and mining links get a vulture in fleet, it will boost better than the rorqual since its specialized to do that. No need for you to be running 6 links with an industrial core and utility slot.

8. Bubble immunity

No, just no. If you get bubbled only 2 different types of ships get to warp away, ceptors and nullified T3's, the second you add capital ships to that list you broke Eve.
Bubbles = Infinite Points, No escape.

9. Capital mining mods

I also have no issues with a capital strip miner or a capital ice harvester. in fact adding mining ability would make it more belt worthy than it is now. Plus that means there might be solo mining rorquals to kill!

Again those were just my thoughts on some of the ideas posted here, MY IDEA would be a mix of the marginally increased align time, addition of capital mining mods, Increase the rep power and tank of it to levels just about 20% below a triage carrier, and weaponize the drones more to punch things in the face, maybe a larger boost to drone Hitpoints so they dont all die to DPS frigs in 2 volleys.


Obviously you're not a miner. Obviously you just want more Rorqual kills.
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
Capital Interstellar Group
#135 - 2014-07-12 22:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Oh and while i'm here, when this change comes about please make sure you take away the ability of a rorqual to boost in a POS ( Maybe the Orca as well ) this will Force rorqual pilots to choose 1 of 3 options after the change is implemented, and makes them suffer the same fate command ships now do ( Althout command ships kick ass now too )

1. RIsk it by boosting in the belts or deployed outside of a POS, or in darkspace. either way it can die

2. Sit in the shield compressing ore, making clones, and QQ' ing on Forums

3. Haul it to low sec, strip it down and sell it for parts.

Again this should come with the changes, i'm not suggesting this happen on its own


If your objections are taken seriously and your suggests are incorporated, I will vote for option 3. I'll be out of the mining business forever. I might still keep my Rorqual because it's a cheaper way to haul compressed ore to my manufacturing sites, but that would be its only use. A hauler.

Really I am not much of a miner to begin with. But with my new situation I have been dabbling with the idea of getting into it a bit more. Currently the only resource collection I do is PI because it's really the only form of resource collection (other than PvE) that isn't broken in low and null.

You might just want to go back to the PvP forums and talk with your buddies about miner ganking or whatever your career is. But you might as well stop trolling here. Obviously your input is skewed by your principles of ideology that are born completely out of the world of PvPers who prefer to take on targets that can't shoot back. But no need to troll here. This thread is for those interested in coming up with ways to make a Rorqual actually work.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#136 - 2014-07-13 10:35:44 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:

You might just want to go back to the PvP forums and talk with your buddies about miner ganking or whatever your career is. But you might as well stop trolling here. Obviously your input is skewed by your principles of ideology that are born completely out of the world of PvPers who prefer to take on targets that can't shoot back. But no need to troll here. This thread is for those interested in coming up with ways to make a Rorqual actually work.


It isn't as if Rorquals don't die frequently anyway. The fact that it's a capital ship that can't use gates is enough risk. It's extremely vulnerable when it moves anywhere.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#137 - 2014-07-13 21:56:07 UTC
Just gonna re-state that the INDY CORE NEEDS TO DIE.

Opens up a lot more options . Right now it's the chain that keeps it tied to a POS
Rita Torres
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#138 - 2014-07-14 08:29:57 UTC
ok if u want it to go to belts to help out add some more animation to it. so when it lands in a belt and deploys 2 large chain deploy to anchor some mini towers and a pos sized shield medium goes up so 20million hp and it burn stront. also add fighter sized mining drones/ventures about 8-10 and double its bonus. and add more resis. then maybe i will consider using this in a belt if not it stays in the pos cause thats where its safest.
Rex Omnipotens
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2014-07-14 14:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rex Omnipotens
So after reading everything I think there are only 3 things that would make me WANT to put a rorq in a belt.

1) Make the Rorq a mobile starbase, thats use is tied to its indy core. Make the shields small enough, or (I'm not sure if the coding would stand up to this) add a rule that only industrial ships can enter the shield. Then add a cleverly named "Bay" that can only contain enough stront, HW, Spiced Wine etc... to generate a timer of an hour or less. During which the ship will remain in space but maintain its Combat timers until the reinforce timer finishes. Ie if reinforced it will maintain its full Capsuleer combat log off timer until it exits reinforce and then the countdown will begin.

2) Create 4 new Capital Mining Lasers(2 for Ice and 2 for ore) that can only be used on the rorqual and requires/ is bonused by the starbase defense management skill. Make them like the usual capital mods where there are the meta 1 version and a second named one to add some bling bling and further fuel the fires of industry and economy.

3) Rework the OGB so that it would still have its current unsieged boost level if off grid and its current, if not better, sieged boosts if on grid. But keep off grid boosting so as to maintain the choice of still using the rorqual but in a safer way or using an orca in its current state.

Final thoughts:

Disable the Indy core within 500km of a starbase

Boost the shield resists of the rorqual when its indy core is active, enough so that a moderately sized blops gang or a dreadnought couldn't just quickly force a reinforce timer.

Make all strip miners/ Mining lasers/ Gas Harvestors inoperable within 5km of the shield.

Only allow the rorqual to target Asteroids,Glaciers, Cargo Containers and Wrecks while the Indy Core is activated.

Increase the size of the ore hold and fleet hangar and add a compressed hold as a targetable location for compression jobs.

When the rorqual exits its reinforced mode have it exit at ~10% cap, whereby not having the cap to immediately jump or boost itself back above the reinforced level.

Lastly disallow anchored bubbles within 1000km, or on grid, of an actively sieged rorqual to help balance the risk vs. reward. Ie gankers can't trololol bubble a reinforced rorqual but the mining fleet also can't defensively bubble themselves into a belt/ anom.

My last idea isn't related to wanting to put a rorqual into a belt but more of a potential revamp to help it better sync with locally sourced industry, why can't we give the rorqual a variable fueled jump drive? Give it a jump range or quantity penalty if it uses non oxygen topes. It makes sense that a ship like this should have the flexibility to operate anywhere in new eden scraping together whatever it can get its hands on to get the job done. I'm not saying I want this to be worked into the rorqual revamp as lets face it the above is a tall order already...but I think this is a solid idea to look into nonetheless.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#140 - 2014-07-14 16:22:45 UTC
Rex Omnipotens wrote:
1) Make the Rorq a mobile starbase, thats use is tied to its indy core. Make the shields small enough, or (I'm not sure if the coding would stand up to this) add a rule that only industrial ships can enter the shield. Then add a cleverly named "Bay" that can only contain enough stront, HW, Spiced Wine etc... to generate a timer of an hour or less. During which the ship will remain in space but maintain its Combat timers until the reinforce timer finishes. Ie if reinforced it will maintain its full Capsuleer combat log off timer until it exits reinforce and then the countdown will begin.

This will never ever happen. I wish people would stop suggesting it.

CCP hates the starbase force field because it requires coding exceptions to the rules, which tend to be buggy. CCP has already proposed removing force fields, so they are not going to add more.

Rex Omnipotens wrote:
2) Create 4 new Capital Mining Lasers(2 for Ice and 2 for ore) that can only be used on the rorqual and requires/ is bonused by the starbase defense management skill. Make them like the usual capital mods where there are the meta 1 version and a second named one to add some bling bling and further fuel the fires of industry and economy.

Very unlikely to happen, as CCP has stated they don't want anything mining more than a Hulk.

Rex Omnipotens wrote:
3) Rework the OGB so that it would still have its current unsieged boost level if off grid and its current, if not better, sieged boosts if on grid. But keep off grid boosting so as to maintain the choice of still using the rorqual but in a safer way or using an orca in its current state.

Very unlikely to happen: more exceptions to rules.

Rex Omnipotens wrote:
Final thoughts:

Very unlikely to happen: more exceptions to rules.