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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#1241 - 2014-07-04 18:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
admiral root wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
When you spend all your time defending things the way they are instead of thinking of ways to improve them, it is surely the end of times.


People actually defend the ridiculously fast Concord response times?
Concord ships are so fast that they go to plaid when responding to a call out. It's the accidental by-product of spilling an order of Coffee and Donuts into the warp core of a confiscated Capsuleer ship, fitted with multiple active propulsion modules in violation of traffic reg:32 sect:B para:3, that was undergoing testing*

My unofficial source within Concord says that the unofficial word on the street about Concord response times is "Deal with it" .

unofficial Concord source wrote:
Victims: If you can't be bothered to make the effort to be a difficult or undesirable target or to at least try and survive until Concord turns up then you should go back to flying newbships. Donut protection duty > wiping your bum for you duty.

Gankers: Our killboard is greener than yours Twisted


*Testing may, or may not, have involved, a BBQ, beer, some exotic dancers in a hot tub, and a betting pool with the fastest lap of the constellation taking it all.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1242 - 2014-07-04 19:56:15 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
When you spend all your time defending things the way they are instead of thinking of ways to improve them, it is surely the end of times.

Keep blustering into the void.


That's extremly naive. Sometimes people realize that a situation is about as good as you could possibly expect, and changing it (without understanding that every change has potential negative consequneces) tends to make things worse, not better. This forum and the Features and Ideas one are chocked full of people that cannot grasp this concept at all.
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
#1243 - 2014-07-04 20:05:43 UTC
Sorry to tell you but I do not believe CCP that they really investigate into alt recycling.

I just witnessed a freighter gank where around 15 catalysts flew in with nice standing. Considering the current gank rate, the fact that it is always the same Machariel pilot doing the freighter bumping, I have a hard time believing that they recruit a new set of 10-20 pilots for a gank.

If CCP would enforce their own rules gankers would fly in being cherry red like the baboon derrieres they are. This would allow preventive actions against this pest. Having to wait until they become criminals just makes it more difficult.

On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1244 - 2014-07-04 20:10:43 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
Sorry to tell you but I do not believe CCP that they really investigate into alt recycling.

I just witnessed a freighter gank where around 15 catalysts flew in with nice standing. Considering the current gank rate, the fact that it is always the same Machariel pilot doing the freighter bumping, I have a hard time believing that they recruit a new set of 10-20 pilots for a gank.

If CCP would enforce their own rules gankers would fly in being cherry red like the baboon derrieres they are. This would allow preventive actions against this pest. Having to wait until they become criminals just makes it more difficult.


If you think they are recycling then report them.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1245 - 2014-07-04 20:17:08 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
Sorry to tell you but I do not believe CCP that they really investigate into alt recycling.

I just witnessed a freighter gank where around 15 catalysts flew in with nice standing. Considering the current gank rate, the fact that it is always the same Machariel pilot doing the freighter bumping, I have a hard time believing that they recruit a new set of 10-20 pilots for a gank.

If CCP would enforce their own rules gankers would fly in being cherry red like the baboon derrieres they are. This would allow preventive actions against this pest. Having to wait until they become criminals just makes it more difficult.
i'm sure just this epic whine thread got at least 100 legit new recruits.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1246 - 2014-07-04 20:18:06 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
Sorry to tell you but I do not believe CCP that they really investigate into alt recycling.
Have you reported any?

Quote:
I just witnessed a freighter gank where around 15 catalysts flew in with nice standing. Considering the current gank rate, the fact that it is always the same Machariel pilot doing the freighter bumping, I have a hard time believing that they recruit a new set of 10-20 pilots for a gank.
…and the age of these 15 characters were? What do their kill history look like?

Because the ganking rate you point to is very very low; the ability to regain sec status is both universal and fairly quick; and that the cost and time required to build a useful gank alt is fairly high for what you get. So security status alone tells us little to nothing.

Quote:
If CCP would enforce their own rules gankers would fly in being cherry red like the baboon derrieres they are.
Not really, no. That would only happen if they couldn't be arsed to rebuild their sec staus between ganks, and they have plenty of time and opportunity to do that.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#1247 - 2014-07-04 20:21:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


If you think they are recycling then report them.


I should imagine it is more a case of Disposable account. It takes what 3 weeks to create a gank char? That leaves a month if subbed that account. to go ganking. When sub runs out. stop using account and sub the next one.


Maybe it is too much tinfoil, but definitely a possibility.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1248 - 2014-07-04 20:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Altessa Post wrote:
Sorry to tell you but I do not believe CCP that they really investigate into alt recycling.

I just witnessed a freighter gank where around 15 catalysts flew in with nice standing.
If you think that someone is recycling negative sec status alts, report them. Bear in mind that by not podding some gankers manage to keep their sec status pretty reasonable, others buy tags; some just stay at -10, because yarr! Pirate

Quote:
Considering the current gank rate, the fact that it is always the same Machariel pilot doing the freighter bumping, I have a hard time believing that they recruit a new set of 10-20 pilots for a gank.
What is the current gank rate? What would you consider to be an acceptable loss rate as a percentage? What is the percentage of freighter traffic, or miners for that matter, lost to suicide ganking?

Quote:
If CCP would enforce their own rules gankers would fly in being cherry red like the baboon derrieres they are. This would allow preventive actions against this pest. Having to wait until they become criminals just makes it more difficult.
Some gankers are already a shiny shade of red, you can even shoot at them. The others are the ones that have access to decent rats, buy tags or bored folks trying something new.

Sec status is there for a reason, it's for burning when you gank whinebears.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1249 - 2014-07-04 20:28:42 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
I should imagine it is more a case of Disposable account. It takes what 3 weeks to create a gank char? That leaves a month if subbed that account. to go ganking. When sub runs out. stop using account and sub the next one.


Maybe it is too much tinfoil, but definitely a possibility.

The simplest and most obvious argument against alt recycling (or disposable accounts) has always been that it simply doesn't serve any useful purpose. It's a whole lot of time and money to throw away for no real benefit — even more so these days when you can just pay your way to non-red status.

Oh, and disposable accounts will get you just as banned (and eventually your card/steam/amazon details blacklisted), so that's probably an even worse idea than just recycling them.
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
#1250 - 2014-07-04 20:49:27 UTC
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle. So, next time please try to suppress the Pavlovian urge of your culture ("You should sue them!").

I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.

Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling?

On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1251 - 2014-07-04 20:58:45 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation.
So don't come here and throw around accusations. Either you have enough to support your suspicion, in which case you have all you need to report them, or you don't, in which case you have nothing to bleat about.

Quote:
Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.
Why? Nothing of what you described shows any particular sign of recycling.

Quote:
Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling?
Yes. Open a support ticket. Or, hell, just report the people you suspect and see what happens.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1252 - 2014-07-04 21:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Altessa Post wrote:
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle.
You may not have the data, but CCP do. Without a report they don't know where to look.

They know what characters belong to what account, can see if characters have been recycled with a negative sec status, IP address's and login times, they can link accounts to each other via email and credit cards etc. In short they keep records on pretty much everything that concerns the game and its security.

Quote:
I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.
No speculation involved, CCP have been very clear on their policies regarding the recycling of negative sec status alts. That it will get you a ban, is why it's uncommon, despite what you may think.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1253 - 2014-07-04 21:03:19 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


If you think they are recycling then report them.


I should imagine it is more a case of Disposable account. It takes what 3 weeks to create a gank char? That leaves a month if subbed that account. to go ganking. When sub runs out. stop using account and sub the next one.


Maybe it is too much tinfoil, but definitely a possibility.


And spend all of that time getting those skills back only to get all of your accounts banned when CCP drops the hammer.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1254 - 2014-07-04 21:05:53 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle. So, next time please try to suppress the Pavlovian urge of your culture ("You should sue them!").

I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.

Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling?


Stop propagating the myth that this actually happens. You may not have data about it (and it says a lot about you that you're willing to accuse people of a perma ban offense knowing that you have no proof), but CCP does.

If you even suspect, then report them. Otherwise, shut it. You flapping your mouth and stomping your feet in false moral outrage about videogames is just pathetic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#1255 - 2014-07-05 01:04:40 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle. So, next time please try to suppress the Pavlovian urge of your culture ("You should sue them!").

I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.

Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling?



I doubt you'll get a response from CCP, but I can tell you first-hand that yeah, they'll get all up in your Kool-Aid at the suspicion of rolling disposable alts.

Without revealing too much of GM correspondence, before I started this account, I had an account with a lowsec pirate char. Decided to devote that acct to carebearing, biomassed the pirate toon, and rolled this account new for neg sec status funsies.

Ended up having a long chat with a nice GM about disposable negsec alts, and my intentions. I kinda got a "We'll be watching you!" vibe.

So yeah, you see a person rolling disposable accounts like that, report em.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
GM Lelouch
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#1256 - 2014-07-05 03:19:53 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
The proposal to "report them" is silly. I do not have the data to prove a violation. In fact, it is impossible for me to prove a recycle. So, next time please try to suppress the Pavlovian urge of your culture ("You should sue them!").

I also do not like the speculation about what is illegal and how CCP goes against them. That is just guesswork. Until today, I did believe that alt recycling is not a common practice. Yet, after my observation in Niarja I have my doubt.

Can somebody from CCP comment whether you actually do investigate into alt recycling?


I'll keep this brief but yes, we do investigate alt character recycling and we do take offenses of this nature very seriously.

What we cannot do is manually monitor every PVP ship loss which occurs in EVE so we need you, our players, to file a report and let us know if you suspect foul play of this sort. Alt recycling is not very common these days but it still does happen from time to time. Please do file a ticket including all the information you have concerning this loss, we'd be happy to look into it for you.

Alt recycling is verifiable in our logs and it will have consequences for the player's main account(s) too, if disposable accounts are used for this purpose.

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.

Hmm, I guess this post didn't end up being as brief as I intended but I hope you all found this post informative.

Best regards, Lead GM Lelouch CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1257 - 2014-07-05 04:06:35 UTC
GM Lelouch wrote:

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?

I have done something like that with my mining characters. I gave a brand new character the isk and other assets owned by an established character (this is the established one), then retired the established character to the forum.
I have given new characters the assets of more established characters before biomassing the older characters, tho. I have even stated multiple times in the forum I had done this and no one raised any alarms about 'recycling'.

Wouldn't the loss of skills be considered a problem for PvP?
My confusion is basically because I avoid PvP, I admit.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1258 - 2014-07-05 04:45:13 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?


The skill level needed to fly a destroyer for the goal of suicide ganking is very low, and can be obtained in a very short time. No, it is not a hindrance.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1259 - 2014-07-05 04:46:42 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:

One final clarification: Alt recycling is defined as the act of using a disposable character/account to perform actions which carry negative consequences within the game and then recycling (biomassing) the character to bypass said consequences and starting all over again with a new character.

1. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then farming up security status once it drops too low? This is totally okay with us.
2. Using an alt account to suicide gank and then deleting the character and replacing it with a new one once security status drops too low? This is not okay.


I am a little confused.
Of what benefit is deleting the character with the low status (but with PvP skills) when you have to make a completely new character to replace him?
Wouldn't the loss of a skilled character be a hindrance?

I have done something like that with my mining characters. I gave a brand new character the isk and other assets owned by an established character (this is the established one), then retired the established character to the forum.
I have given new characters the assets of more established characters before biomassing the older characters, tho. I have even stated multiple times in the forum I had done this and no one raised any alarms about 'recycling'.

Wouldn't the loss of skills be considered a problem for PvP?
My confusion is basically because I avoid PvP, I admit.


It will take more time to retrain the lost skillpoints than to simply go grind up your sec status.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1260 - 2014-07-05 04:47:49 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


If you think they are recycling then report them.


I should imagine it is more a case of Disposable account. It takes what 3 weeks to create a gank char? That leaves a month if subbed that account. to go ganking. When sub runs out. stop using account and sub the next one.


Maybe it is too much tinfoil, but definitely a possibility.


So you don't actually know for sure, but are just speculating in hopes that CCP will go & ban a bunch of people at your whim.

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