EVE General Discussion

I agree with Sol on this one. I don't think he's playing devil's advocate.

Avoiding Faction Police is not more challenging than avoiding other players (you get around FacPo using bookmarks). Gankers already dock up for Faction Police, so it stands to reason they would dock up with just players as well.

Lack of Faction Police makes it easier, as it decreases the number of aggressors and allows for BS use. Well, there's selling tags for that. If you can't repair your sec status using the spoils of ganking then maybe you need to consider a career that's not charity.

HTFU and stop asking for easy mode.

-10 is a self imposed limitation. Eliminating FacPo doesn't affect auto-yellow on -10.

Getting rid of FacPo would contribute nothing to player-to-player interaction. The "auto-yellow" will cause players to dock up anyway.

If you want auto-yellow at existing sec status thresholds like -4.5 (or -2 in 1.0) then it might seem like less of an attempt to create ganker easy mode.

But that still doesn't demonstrate how it would change anything at all in player-to-player interaction.

Because other players would be worse than FacPo at shooting down BSs? How do you figure?

Hell make auto-yellow on -1. I'd prefer that tbh. As it stands at the minute, sec status loss is meanless anyway in real terms, you just pump it back up again with tags before the FacPo gives a crap

You think removing NPCs doesnt increase the amount of interaction you have to have with players?

How do you figure that, sportsfan?

Your FACE is a sportsfan!

This is what I think:

1. Eliminating FacPo and making auto-yellow on -10 makes it too easy. No FacPo for -4.5 to -9.9, allowing use of BS. And we gain nothing from this because no one could freely shoot at -4.5 to -9.9.
2. Making auto-yellow on -1 makes it too hard. It would wreck the desire a lot of players have to do bad things because anyone could shoot at them for just about anything. Even the current sec status thresholds are too harsh, in my opinion. It would destroy crime in hisec because currently there *are* ways around FacPo (encourages players who play smarter).

I don't like either because they both seem worse than current implementation.

Edit: I feel like I'm misunderstanding proposal #1. My fault, if that's the case.

Whats with all of this auto-yellow at -10?

At -10 you are an outlaw and can be shot at already.

Whoops my bad lol forgot about that

Boy is my face flashy red or what

Pfft. Nobody said it was a big achievement or a big deal. It is, however, non-trivial and not zero effort. It's certainly not mindless. Compared to winning an AT or doing a wormhole eviction? OK, less skill, prep, or risk for sure. Compared to accepting a doctrine ship on contract from your logistics corp and then undocking long enough to press jump and F1 on primary? Oh, at no personal risk thanks to SRP? i.e. "honorable null PvP"... yeah.

I'm simply pointing out that CODE fleets have all the same real hassle as any other "respectable" PvP fleet. Scouts for scanning and warpins (warpins in particular being a big deal with short range cats at -10), time spent making bookmarks for instants and off-grids to the various stations and belts, time spent hauling ships and fittings into and out of each staging area (which changed often during the miner ganking days).

As for the argument that CODE gankers should "stay in space" like "real" gankers... uh, only if they were less efficient I guess. During miner ganking they would gank 3+ ships an hour. That means 45 minutes of GCC cooldowns where they simply cannot undock in anything but a pod. The other 15 minutes they WERE in space, either pulling/moving CONCORD or flying to the next target. And yes, sometimes bouncing around "scarily" because a warp-in wasn't ready or the primary target clued in and left grid. Basically, if enough people were online to gank, CODE was in space pretty much the entire time they didn't have a GCC. To spend any more time in space, CODE would have had to gank fewer ships.

And if enough people weren't online, then it's time to haul ships and fittings. Because CODE had no central logistics, so each person hauls their own stuff and makes their own bookmarks. Everyone was expected to FC at least a couple of times too, which meant sorting all that out for everyone else, plus scouting and whatnot. Oh, and your "hundreds of gank ships across empire space"? A CODE fleet chews through a hundred ships and fittings in an hour.

Is any of this "hard" or "skill intensive"? No. Is it somehow more mindless or easier than just about any other activity in EVE? Definitely not. It has its own quirks and nuances and annoyances and hassles, like anything else. Realistically, ANY argument against CODE blobs presented so far is basically the "blob fleets are EZ mode -- solo pvp is master race" argument, which has nothing to do with ganking. That's not a quagmire I want to wade through.

If you don't like what CODE does, fine. If you want to believe that solo ganking is somehow more noble than blob ganking, fine, whatever. But there is absolutely zero argument that can be made that it takes no skill, or effort, or planning, or is somehow magically easier than 90% of the rest of EVE.

Maybe you just don't like people who fly in fleets? I dunno... show me on this doll where the bad FC touched you.

tl;dr - Can't we all just get along?

Think about what you just said.

You just said that facpo serves no purpose aside from being a mechanic you have to jump through hoops to get around so that you can play the game.

It doesn't matter if you won't see every single neg ten hanging out in highsec. It matters if it allows the ones who want to, to do it without jumping through hoops involving cloaked Orcas and twenty bookmarks in every system you want to operate in.