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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#441 - 2014-06-18 16:26:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

His idea is pretty much a big FU to anybody who does faction warfare or lowsec PvP. It locks them out the market hubs and highsec in general. They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


It's 100% intended in his suggestion, by the way. That's the end goal of all carebears. To lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into Trammel.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#442 - 2014-06-18 16:30:24 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.


Not alts, friends. 20-30 ships are involved when attacking it, stands to reason the it should have some friends.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#443 - 2014-06-18 16:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.
Nobody is suggesting that freighter pilots should be locked out of highsec Roll

If they're moving a valuable load, they should take responsibility for protecting that valuable load.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#444 - 2014-06-18 16:33:13 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.

The price needs to be in line with the target and its not. Some one flying a multi billion isk freighter that took several months to train should not be able to get ganked by toons that get bio massed and made over and over in high dps low cost ships.

There is no price.


If tank was based upon isk value then the federate issue megathron would have more tank than 80 titans, 100 supers, 4 fleets of dreadnoughts, two fleets of carriers and 5 fleets of battleships.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#445 - 2014-06-18 16:37:04 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


If they're moving a valuable load, they should take responsibility for protecting that valuable load.


WHAT?!?!?!? Surely you are not advocating ::effort:: on behalf of freighter pilots who are clearly entitled to engage autopilot >> go make dinner and watch Netflix >> profit!!!

The nerve of some people!

Friendship over!

*slams door

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#446 - 2014-06-18 16:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.
No, but if they wish to use the tools provided by CCP, then asking friends for help in an MMO will work. Kinda like the gankers do. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#447 - 2014-06-18 16:39:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.
No, but getting all their other accounts banned alongside it does. Recycled gank alts is a myth. They don't happen because a) they're not worth it, b) they're pretty much useless, and c) they're 100% unnecessary, and would still be even if they had some minute use.

Quote:
The price needs to be in line with the target and its not.
No. The price must not be in line with anything. If it is, the game is fundamentally and irreparably broken in every way. Price is a product, not a factor. Someone flying a multi-billion ISK freighter that took several months to train should know better than to get ganked by a few toons that have been around for years doing the same thing, and which are trivially found and traced using killboards and in-game alerts.

If they don't, then that's because the freighter pilot in question was an idiot who deserved it. His ship and training are not even relevant at that point.
Lady Areola Fappington
#448 - 2014-06-18 16:43:47 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.

The price needs to be in line with the target and its not. Some one flying a multi billion isk freighter that took several months to train should not be able to get ganked by toons that get bio massed and made over and over in high dps low cost ships.

There is no price.



Yeaaaaah, those bans are typically IP/machine address based. CCP finds you evading them, they ban your new accounts.



But hey, since this is such a commonly done, "all the gankers are doing it" kinda thing, care to point me at a list of these biomassed cycle alts? I mean, if it's that common, link me some chars with the following characteristics:

1. Doomheim corp (that's the corp of biomassed chars)
2. Less than 3 months old.
3. Negative sec status.
4. Previous member of a known ganking corp.
5. Some connection between the accounts.
6. Currently active gank character.

I mean, if this happens as often as carebear folks claim it does, there should be ample examples of the above, right?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#449 - 2014-06-18 16:59:46 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


If they're moving a valuable load, they should take responsibility for protecting that valuable load.


WHAT?!?!?!? Surely you are not advocating ::effort:: on behalf of freighter pilots who are clearly entitled to engage autopilot >> go make dinner and watch Netflix >> profit!!!

The nerve of some people!

Friendship over!

*slams door
Your door opens? I call shenanigans

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Prince Kobol
#450 - 2014-06-18 16:59:46 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

At what point have I even mentioned being afk?

You can easily bump a freighter who is not afk. What you are saying is that every trip you make in your freighter you have to have a couple of guys with you all the way using a legal loophole.

My align time in a providence is 42 seconds. Sure I can fit 3 nano's and totally gimp the EHP but its till going to take 27 secs. That is plenty of time to get bumped. Being afk has nothing to do with it.

Needing people to use a legal loophole to avoid a tactic is a bad game design.


No it isn't. If one pilot could bump your freighter and gank your freighter that would be bad (and CCP has repeatedly eliminated things like boomerang that allowed for undersized gangs to overperform). That a gang can win many including specialists vs 1 in a MMO is perfectly reasonable.

What is causing people grief right now, is that you can mostly sail about randomly afk and get away with it. if you never got away with it, you'd figure out your logistics and your economics so that you didn't need the freighter much and the freighter loads that -absolutely- had to fly freighter would be sufficiently valuable to you to fly escorted and scouted.

I bought an obelisk in 2009, and I can't currently undock it at all, since the undock is a known marmite location, and only 1 marmite pilot is required to beat me solo in an obelisk. ie your situation is much easier than mine (and I don't think there is anything wrong with mine, its a fair consequence of an act).

The recent aufay killings have shown up an awful lot of freighters flying pointlessly anyway, where had conditions been harsh enough to actually require the pilot to think before undocking they would have not flown the freighter, and it is a better game if you do in fact make logical survival choices.

CCP has also resolved ore as a problem that requires a freighter, and made that far less necessary or desirable (or at least it will be when the full indy patch hits).



Not sure which posting you are reading but sure ins't mine.

The only issue I currently have (once again) is bumping and the fact that 1 pilot can infinitely bump a freighter until the gank squad arrives and it is completely out of the freighter pilots hands.

This is why the tactic is used so often. As the guy bumping you know that the only way the freighter pilot can escape is if you screw up, there is nothing he can do to effect the outcome.

The only tactic to avoid being bumped is to use a legal loophole. You can talk as much as you like about what ever the hell you talking about but it still does not negate the fact that the only counter to bumping when you are a freighter pilot is by using a legal loophole.

Again I have no issues with ganking and I also do not want bumping to be banned, however it is worth a discussion to see if the mechanics can be changed in some way.

Also just in case you missed it, this has nothing to do with being afk. Without having people webbing you the quickest you could go to warp is about 25 secs with a seriously gimped fit and implants, still more then enough time to be bumped.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#451 - 2014-06-18 17:02:56 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:



Not sure which posting you are reading but sure ins't mine.

The only issue I currently have (once again) is bumping and the fact that 1 pilot can infinitely bump a freighter until the gank squad arrives and it is completely out of the freighter pilots hands.

This is why the tactic is used so often. As the guy bumping you know that the only way the freighter pilot can escape is if you screw up, there is nothing he can do to effect the outcome.

The only tactic to avoid being bumped is to use a legal loophole. You can talk as much as you like about what ever the hell you talking about but it still does not negate the fact that the only counter to bumping when you are a freighter pilot is by using a legal loophole.

Again I have no issues with ganking and I also do not want bumping to be banned, however it is worth a discussion to see if the mechanics can be changed in some way.

Also just in case you missed it, this has nothing to do with being afk. Without having people webbing you the quickest you could go to warp is about 25 secs with a seriously gimped fit and implants, still more then enough time to be bumped.



Its not a legal loophole. Just get someone to web you or have them bump the bumper. It is very easy to stop someone bumping you.
Auron Black
Doomheim
#452 - 2014-06-18 17:03:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

His idea is pretty much a big FU to anybody who does faction warfare or lowsec PvP. It locks them out the market hubs and highsec in general. They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


It's 100% intended in his suggestion, by the way. That's the end goal of all carebears. To lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into Trammel.


I love the absolute nonsense you spout in your posts, it is actually quite funny. Carebears couldn't care less about low sec pvp, fw or other. It is the end goal of "all" gankers to lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into trammel.

Remember you force your game play on us, not the other way around, there is plenty of space for you to play in where you don't need to worry about facpo or concord or sec standing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#453 - 2014-06-18 17:08:20 UTC
Auron Black wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

His idea is pretty much a big FU to anybody who does faction warfare or lowsec PvP. It locks them out the market hubs and highsec in general. They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


It's 100% intended in his suggestion, by the way. That's the end goal of all carebears. To lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into Trammel.


I love the absolute nonsense you spout in your posts, it is actually quite funny. Carebears couldn't care less about low sec pvp, fw or other. It is the end goal of "all" gankers to lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into trammel.

Remember you force your game play on us, not the other way around, there is plenty of space for you to play in where you don't need to worry about facpo or concord or sec standing.


We don't force anything on you. You agree to being open to pvp at any time when playing EVE. If you don't like this then best find a game that isn't EVE.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#454 - 2014-06-18 17:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Auron Black wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It's 100% intended in his suggestion, by the way. That's the end goal of all carebears. To lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into Trammel.

I love the absolute nonsense you spout in your posts, it is actually quite funny. Carebears couldn't care less about low sec pvp, fw or other.
…which has nothing to do with what he's talking about. So there's a distinct lack of pointing out any nonsense in what he said.

Quote:
It is the end goal of "all" gankers to lock out other people's gameplay, turn the game into trammel.
No. They have no interest in locking out any gameplay at all. So that absolute nonsense you're talking about is in your post, not in his. That explains why you love it, I suppose.
Lady Areola Fappington
#455 - 2014-06-18 17:11:15 UTC
Auron Black wrote:

Remember you force your game play on us, not the other way around, there is plenty of space for you to play in where you don't need to worry about facpo or concord or sec standing.



The ability to contradict yourself like that, in the same sentence, is amazing. Gold star!

Stop trying to force me to go to lowsec. I want to blow up miners in highsec. Thank you.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Winchester Steele
#456 - 2014-06-18 17:12:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Winchester Steele wrote:
How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.

* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.
I'd buy that were it not for incidents like Aufey or burn Jita. Those special occasions where typical common sense and the things that keep you off the killboard 99 times out of 100 just don't work out because someone wants to make your day just a bit more special.

Of course others may just consider that to be the complacency of highsec, and that every freighter should always travel with a full complement of scout, webbers, ECM and other countergank support (Yea hyperbole!), but until the level of activity in those incidents becomes the norm, or even just slightly more common/widespread can you blame them?

And aside from paying the extortion fee, do you think your normal prep would have gotten you through Aufay?



It's a player driven sandbox. Burn Aufay was an event run by players. It was like a weekend. I just didn't haul to Minmatar on those days, or paid RF to do it for me. Unlike your average mindless hisec bot, I pay attention to the community and knew WELL in advance that this was coming. It's like the idiots who get tagged during burn Jita.. How could you not know about this UNLESS you are playing EvE as a single player game and paying no attention.

EvE is NOT a single player game.

My freighter always has webs and a scout. Usually my RL friend who I play with. If not him I use an alt from another account. If I can't scout it I contract it to someone who can.

As to your question. I've never paid an extortion fee. I donate because I enjoy the content created by CODE. and because I genuinely believe that they are good folks and good for the game. They don't know my NPC freighter alt at all. And lastly, my normal prep did work, as I just didn't go through Aufay during that period.

At the end of the day though, and the thing that differentiates a real EvE player from a whinebear, had they caught me and ganked me I would only have one response: GF!

...

Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#457 - 2014-06-18 17:18:33 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
They can get round it using alts but they shouldn't have to unless they want to.


..but freighter pilots should be required to have alts.
No, but if they wish to use the tools provided by CCP, then asking friends for help in an MMO will work. Kinda like the gankers do. Blink

As I said earlier... the difference is that you can easily find friends for a fun activity, but finding friends for a boring time consuming activity is hard...

*looks at sov grinding*

forget what I just said Lol
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#458 - 2014-06-18 17:19:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.

The price needs to be in line with the target and its not. Some one flying a multi billion isk freighter that took several months to train should not be able to get ganked by toons that get bio massed and made over and over in high dps low cost ships.

There is no price.


If tank was based upon isk value then the federate issue megathron would have more tank than 80 titans, 100 supers, 4 fleets of dreadnoughts, two fleets of carriers and 5 fleets of battleships.


Do you have a federate issue megathron? I can haz?

Bacon makes us stronger
Winchester Steele
#459 - 2014-06-18 17:21:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.
No, but getting all their other accounts banned alongside it does. Recycled gank alts is a myth. They don't happen because a) they're not worth it, b) they're pretty much useless, and c) they're 100% unnecessary, and would still be even if they had some minute use.

Quote:
The price needs to be in line with the target and its not.
No. The price must not be in line with anything. If it is, the game is fundamentally and irreparably broken in every way. Price is a product, not a factor. Someone flying a multi-billion ISK freighter that took several months to train should know better than to get ganked by a few toons that have been around for years doing the same thing, and which are trivially found and traced using killboards and in-game alerts.

If they don't, then that's because the freighter pilot in question was an idiot who deserved it. His ship and training are not even relevant at that point.



I love my gank alt. I would never biomass him. Besides, surgical strike 5 was such a pain in the ass, who wants to do that again?

...

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#460 - 2014-06-18 17:22:23 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Yea I am sure getting banned on a free disposable account really stops them from from biomassing.

The price needs to be in line with the target and its not. Some one flying a multi billion isk freighter that took several months to train should not be able to get ganked by toons that get bio massed and made over and over in high dps low cost ships.

There is no price.


If tank was based upon isk value then the federate issue megathron would have more tank than 80 titans, 100 supers, 4 fleets of dreadnoughts, two fleets of carriers and 5 fleets of battleships.


Do you have a federate issue megathron? I can haz?


No, there is only one and I am quite happy with who has it as they will keep it safe.