EVE Information Portal

Pretty miserable changes to Scrapmetal Processing.

^^^^This^^^^
Why did I waste my time training it? I hate mining so I rat and repro the loot for my mins to build with. Now I have to buy a POS and monthly fuel costs, a refining array and a jump clone with refining implants just to get CLOSE to what I'm getting now.

So much for the "New Player Experince". I hope they like their noob ships. They're going to be in them a looooong time now. Ship prices are gonna jump again. I can see 400mil Domis by the end of the second week after the expansion. Great for the indy's,not so great for the new people.

You are aware that outposts can be conquered, right? If you don't like that an outpost has better reprocessing rates than your pos, take it for yourself.

And if someone captures your outpost, what happens to your materials? Nothing. You just fly them away once the invaders have gotten bored of bubbling the station.

Contrast this to a POS which will be utterly destroyed. Your materials will be gone, and you won't be able to simply return to the POS after the invaders have calmed down in order to rescue the goods you left behind.

Once an Outpost is Captured by another entity the previous owners have no access to it. Anything they had inside it remains there forever unless they join the group who captured it or can retake it.

Once an Outpost is Captured by another entity the previous owners have no access to it. Anything they had inside it remains there forever unless they join the group who captured it or can retake it.

Thank you for that. Very informative. It seems freighter pilots are going to be hauling a lot of ore and compressed ore around starting this summer.

So glad my alt is most of the way there now.

Having an outpost with better refining capability than a POS is rather offensive.

First, this goes against the idea of "farms and fields" — the point of which is to allow aggressors to deny utility without having to wholesale invade the entire region. Reinforcing a POS is easier for small fleets than reinforcing an outpost.

Second, a POS can be destroyed, looted, and sold for parts & scrap value. Thus outposts violate the much-vaunted "risk versus reward" balance: the outpost has precisely 0 chance of loss since it cannot be destroyed. The only risk to a business running from an outpost is temporary interruption of production.

Outposts already have the advantage of more assembly lines, greater storage capacity and ability to be the pickup or delivery end of a courier contract. They don't need any more advantages.

I can't wait to see the changes CCP has in mind for manufacturing and other activity lines. I'll take this opportunity to remind CCP of the principles of game design espoused by CCP Soundwave:

1. No game should be more complex than it absolutely needs to be to meet its goals.
2. A good feature can be based on positive or negative player interaction.
3. Other players will always be more interesting, for longer, than designed experiences.
4. Every system should affect, and be affected by, the wider world of the game.
5. Here are the tools, do something cool with them.
6. The social experience is more important than practical system balance; the interaction between winners and losers is more interesting than mechanical equality.
7. Interactions should be about reaching and touching, more than reading numbers.
8. Things in the world need to make sense.
9. Players are not entitled to success. There should be an achievement mountain, with players able to find their level and strive to be better.

Having outposts being more efficient at refining than POSes violates the principles of interaction (you can't negatively interact with an outpost apart from reinforcing it: there's no risk of loss) and entitlement.

Running an outpost is only a matter of ISK. They don't consume fuel, there's no balancing of which modules to put online given the constraints of PG and CPU, and there's no risk of someone stealing all your stuff.

Running a POS is a much more interactive proposition. You have to scale that achievement mountain. You need to combine efforts with other players or go mad in the meantime. There is a real risk that your investment in time and ISK will be destroyed by other players. There is the risk that you could be betrayed by your corp mates who steal from the POS or even simply "forget" to fuel it.

The only smelting advantage should be based on a POS module that can only be anchored in 0.4 and below. There should not be an additional mechanical advantage given to an indestructible structure which requires no maintenance. If outposts were to become destructible and required fuel to maintain, I'd back down on this complaint a little: but I'd still want the efficiency advantage to be held by POSes simply because the poor suckers running POSes need some reward for their self-flagellation.

POSes make sense. Outposts do not.

yeah coz undocking freighters full of minerals is such a good plan in hostile space where you cant dock back up ^^

If your outpost full of minerals gets taken, you throw them on the market, no one is going to try and save freighter loads of trit lol

It is not risk they themselves have to take on if they accept a 1% like hit in production cost. Transportation becomes cheaper, the silly markup of like 15% for compressed minerals in the form of modules will be gone (replaced by a small hit on refining compressed velt and scordite, likely sourced directly from miners.

Yet with these net IMPROVEMENT for producers and miners alike, some act as if the world is turning against them because the loose maybe 1% or something, and are neglecting the gains.

And transportation risk can be outsourced...at a price which will be lower now then ever before. The pro's and con's are much more subtle then the complainers in this thread set out to make others believe.