Wormholes

Not a nullseccer, never lost a ship via a logoff gang.

I'd say you have trouble reading.. :p

I've lived in wspace for in fact over 2 years, in 3 different systems. All <= C4 (and I have no interest in moving up).

This change only makes it easier to gank site runners, and maybe once a year you'll find a fleet sitting on a static and get to fight them. But 99% of the time it is just a nerf to site running. Wormholes need more people, making living in them suck more is not the way to do it. Especially in c6 space where you're going to be regularly sieging dreads in sites.

Although I do love ganking caps running sites, might persuade me to move back to a wormhole with a static c6 connection.

Sorry, I'm just not familiar enough with wormholes. But if that case applies to all WH, then maybe the new idea is a bit more reasonable. Not sure if it's reasonable enough though.

Take baby steps. When you swing wildly with a huge stick, you hit all kinds of things that you didn't intend to hit and can cause unexpected problems. Make one small change at a time, see how it pans out, and then make another based on results from the first. If the first change doesn't work out, roll it back, figure out why, and push something new. Your Scrum development style supports this. Everything in me hopes and believes this is what you guys are doing with the new-POSes.

First revert the changes:

1) Rock mining sites are once again cosmic signatures.
2) The discovery overlay shows nothing for W-space, at all, ever.
3) You can scan without probes in space to see cosmic anomalies with 100% accuracy.

Then take a baby step:

1) The discovery overlay shows a list of the signatures and anomalies in a system beginning five minutes after you enter the system, and updates every five minutes after that.

This means that as soon as you jump into a system, your scanner shows nothing. You can scan for anomalies immediately, without dropping probes, or you can wait the five minutes for the 100% anomalies and signature IDs to show up. If you see activity, you might want an instant list. Otherwise, you might not care if it takes 5 minutes to appear.

If someone is actively scanning the system, they will see your new K162 signature appear immediately, and will be able to scan it immediately. Anyone who is not actively scanning the system will automatically see the new K162 signature ID appear no less than 5 minutes and no greater than 10 minutes later -- to account for varied login times and automatic scanner update windows.

Watch and see how that works. Just by virtue of making the scanner overlay less automatic, lazy farming fleets that grew to depend on it will die in a fire.

Another baby step might be causing K162 signatures to spawn only when they are entered; not at warp. I'm sure there are many more the community might suggest.

C2 resident. chiming in.

1. Return to pre-odyssey functionality for scanners in wormhole space. No new artificial delay should be introduced as it is exactly as described, artificial. It is unbalanced in favor of the initiating party.

2. Set Ore sites in w-space back to signatures. With the soon to be introduced ore compressor, WH space mining has a chance to be relevant for corps. Maybe it isn't the best ISK/hr or maybe not even that much better than HS mining, but it will be an *option* with the introduction of that module. Setting Ore sites back to signatures will give residents enough security to attempt mining giving more chance for interaction with other players. Right now, they are probably ignored by a huge portion of w-space residents. Ore signatures + ore compression modules = new content in w-space.

Be very careful with the idea of making K162s instantiate on jump vs. warp. K162s in k-space will become virtually non-existent. Corporations like mine with a static k-space connection will open it only when needed and close it immediately when finished (if we're not lazy). This will limit k-space initiated exploration to non-K162 connections and will only instantiate in WH space if an explorer actually decides to enter the hole. The number of wandering K162s in WH space from k-space will decrease as a result as many explorers do not enter every wormhole but only those they feel they can handle.

Let's start with these two ideas. We all have additional desire for new content across EVE. I will be waiting patiently to see what new content is on the horizon

As many others stated:

Active intel gathering should allow for an up to date overview of what is going on in the system you are monitoring (e.a. no delay)

Vigilance should be rewarded.

The current system provides too much information, and combined with the sig and wormhole mappers everyone is using makes it WAY too obvious when something has changed.

I'm all for giving new signatures an invisibility timer that shields them from passive detection.

I am a C4 resident. Small corp. I also solo hunt in wspace, and on occasion have my corpmates around to back me in a small gang. However we rarely find targets, and those that we do manage to kill are almost always newbs or otherwise obviously ignorant. This makes for somewhat depressing hunting. It's no wonder, though, since via the discovery scanner anyone with much of a clue is making sure there are no new connections every minute or more often.

I find it ridiculous that we can zip up our system and be guaranteed almost perfect safety, and run sites for 100m/character/hour. Blue loot means there is not even a market balance to this capability -- it is paid for via the inflation of everyone else's ISK. Of course, just because wspace is too safe does not mean we do not exploit it. We do.

I am a wspace hunter. I am undiscriminating. I will gank a mining barge if I can find one (though that is very rare for good reason). But that said, I want a reason to have to actually hunt, to make it be (real life human) hunting skill that gets me a kill and not just luck or the ignorance of my target. This requires getting targets out there that can be detected by skill. It also requires that non-ignorant targets actually be out there in space. The changes CCP is going to make to reprocessing will help this a lot, but I still think that mining in anoms is too large an exposure.


Here's what I think should be done. First, remove the discovery scanner's signature pushing in wspace. Sigs should never be detected in wspace without using probes. (This should also be the case in null unless upgraded, but that's another discussion.)

Second, give some more advantage to hunters. I think 5 minutes is too much. Here's what I think: use gate cloak. The general idea is: while gate cloak is held, that player cannot be detected in that system. In wspace, make K162s not be detectable until any ship that has crossed that wormhole drops gate cloak. As soon as any ship does drop its gate cloak, the wormhole is a normal K162 and can be scanned with probes. This gives an aggressor a minute to evaluate the situation, but he can only do it from that one position. Make a similar change to promote hunting in kspace: a player should not appear in local until he drops gate cloak.

To prevent wspace from losing connectivity, there should be a mechanic to make K162s eventually detectable. So, make it so that they have a 1/60 chance per minute to become detectable regardless of flown-throughness.

Also, the current design of ore anoms that are immediately knowable is unfair to rock miners. Miners cannot fight back; they should have the protection of being in a sig site. (And also mining is crap income by comparison to other stuff in wspace.) By contrast, a PVE fleet has significant PVP capability. Please revert the change that put ore sites in anoms.

Didn't read all these 18 pages.

But I think a plain delay is bad. It could be better with more subtlety.

Make the signature appear when a certain number of warpin have been initiated on the other side. Number depending of the wh class. So as soon as you initiate warp (or land if you prefer) on the entrance, you create a "distorsion" or whatever that strengten the signal of the other side exit, thus making it visible after a certain level is reached. (3, 4, 5 warpin... it's up to you).

Yeah, pvpers never risk their ships by warping into a sleeper site full without full knowledge of their opponent. When you try to kill someone in sleeper site you don't know how many people they have logged off in their system, you don't know how many capital ships they can bring in on a moments notice. Yes, ganks will still happen but to say that pvp oriented players don't have a risk when they initiate a fight is ridiculous.

Cloaking. Especially considering the time a probe scan takes to happen, even on max skills.

What's wrong with "the old trick" of spamming probe scans. Isn't that just sort of... what you're supposed to be able to do? the system was fine before the new system scanner was introduced. I don't agree that there was a problem before, because you had to have probe coverage and actively be scanning.