Wormholes

Yes, I've lived in one for a while. If the attacking fleet is all cloakies, they're gimping their fits and you should have a good chance in a fight. If you're mining in a wh you're doing it wrong. Get a venture, suck gas, and accept you'll die some times.

Sorry, no intent to snub the c1-4 crowd. Just dont regularly see cloaky t3's used as initial tackle on anything larger than a group of 2-3.

Risk vs. Reward. the bigger the farming fleet the less risk you are taking. But if you are farming that C3 with a self rep T3 that is all blinged out you are taking a significant risk. I know I lived in a C2 with a C3 static for almost a year and a half while I was running the E-UNI Wormhole Campus. A 6 or 8 man C3 site running fleet can handle cloacky T3s and run away with few scratches, assuming they are on the ball. On the other hand an all blinged out self rep T3 has little to no chance of surviving a gank. This is true of any area of the game, (you can run c5 sites in a single maurauder and the same thing is true) As long as you are combat probing for new ships, even after this change goes through a decent sized C3 fleet still stands a good chance of survival.

There are quite a few who gank, are from large alliances, and/or have large "plexing" fleets that are not for this proposal in it's current form. Let's not turn this into a small v. large or high class v. low class, because I'm a C6 resident, as well as others here, and we aren't advocating for this idea.

theres veteran players then theres new players and a balance to satisfy both is a hard but complicated one.

I say keep the balance we currently have. We want new players to come to wh space and if your going to put time into anything its to bring in more not scare off. I say more people in wh space means more things to shoot at. GET THA THING!!!

Yes u did away with us having to probe all the time to catch new sigs but we still have to probe them IF we catch them. It would appear you want to give the aggressors the advantage ie the ones probing creating the k162 and leaving the ones on the other end with no clue a new sig is in system for a short time. I say leave the current balances the way they are because you wanna keep what you have so take what you have then build on it. I wanna pull up next to the miner thats mining and not paying any attention and remind him theres a new overlay he should have been paying attention too.

Lets do the things that brings more people to wh space....like more dynamic spawning into wh space.

I have lived in wh space now for 3 years and i love the changes and ive ganked my fair share as i have lost. You just gotta be in the right place at the right time. No matter how you change wh space i know that we as wh dwellers will adapt and evolve. My only concerns are keeping the new comers coming and not scaring them off. I wanna shoot something at the end of a hard days work.

GOONS IN WH SPACE??? who's fleet am i joining to kill these guys.

TLDR: dislike

It goes too far. If you wanted to go this far, you would need to switch all anoms to sigs, so the attacker would need to be a good prober, and might not have time to adjust their fleet comp to exactly counter you.

To me, what you are suggesting would be similar to waiting 20 minutes in a FW complex but not being able to d-scan out, even though the attacker can d-scan in.

In this case the attack will not only be able to see what ships you are flying, but also have a very good idea of fits. They will reship to as hard of a counter as they can field.

Currently, this is already what happens if you do not watch open holes or check new sigs.

I would ask that you either allow defenders to protect themselves with probes, or require a fast unprepared attacker ( a fast probing hunter, fast warping tackle, and combat ships that aren't fit to exactly counter the defender).

I am very much not in favour of this idea as currently proposed - this coming from someone who both tries to kill site running groups and runs sites. I don't think that the discovery scanner has had a positive effect on wormholes in general, for various reasons I'm not going to go into, but partly because it does make it too easy to passively spot new connections.

I agree with the suggestion that K162 sigs should be scannable but not added to the passive scanner for a few minutes - in fact, I'd go so far as to say that this should be applied to every signature, since it rewards someone who is actively using a module on their ship and scan probes.

I also kind of like the suggestion of having a new connection not spawn its K162 until it was jumped, rather than when warp was initiated, as it would allow a fleet to be poised before a scout jumped through without having a period of time when a cloaked scout could be getting warpins without the 'defending' side having the slightest clue.

Realistically, even if you're watching d-scan like a hawk, it is entirely possible to cloak a scout entering a wormhole during the time between the game allowing you to scan, depending on the position you arrive at relative to the hole.

I also think it would be entirely unfair to have a situation where a combat fleet had entered a wormhole and left the locals physically no way of locating the wormhole which they came through and getting their own eyes on it for a given amount of time, though you do address that with the idea of giving it a mass or jump number limit before it spawns in the sig.

While I'm not a big fan of the idea of having both wormholes spawn simultaneously, due to the huge implications on hole control this would have, it is better than having a signature that you can't see at all. However, this would heavily punish small groups operating in wormholes with multiple statics, as they'd have to put eyes on every one.

TL:DR; Disagree with this suggestion, however would not be opposed to a return to a system that required the active use of probes to spot signatures immediately.

Not a good idea, what we need is more people in WH space, not less.

Also, this whole ting makes no sense. Let's see s.o. jumps in through that new K162, gets combat probed, people warp to it. Now, they are on a WH which has no signature yet? Or does the signature spawn, now that they are on grid? No, that whole thing is half-baked at most.

Anyway, if you are doing sites and 30 T3 roll into your WH, the sig popping up instantly doesnt really help you anyway. You are tackled by sleepers in the site, you either got the people online to defend or you dont. Giving attackers 2-3 mins more, is just helping unskilled people.

Thanks to site escalation mechanics, if you want to kill people doing sites, just seed in carrier+dread+cloaked ship into their WH. Wait until they warp their carrier/dread/lokis into a site, warp your 2 caps to 300km of that site -> Watch them die to like 50 sleeper BS.

If you want to change s.th. useful in WH space (or in space in general) make your ship stay in space when you log-off. Ships disappearing out of/into nothing is just crap.

I do agree with the idea as it would mean more htfu in wspace. Wspace people can make a lot of isk and the space does not have local. It should be mysterious and unknown. I do understand people position to farm in peace but i do not understand your spirit of wspace.

Generally, I don't see this change promoting good fights, I see it focusing attention on ganks, which we already have plenty of in highsec, rather than promoting other, more enjoyable kinds of combat.

I'd rather kill a site running fleet thanks to their own stupidity and my skill and speed rather than the game not allowing them a way of getting any kind of warning until my dread and neut ships were already in warp.