These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Potential Idea for Discussion: Delaying signature appearance for K162s

First post First post First post
Author
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#81 - 2014-03-23 22:36:59 UTC
This is absolutely the right direction for a change.

I'll leave the details up to others vis a vis minutes/overlay/scanners, but wanted to voice my support. Glad to see something came of that townhall.
Faxanadu Phantasm
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2014-03-23 22:38:44 UTC
I understand whats being proposed here... Opening up opportunity for pvp...

I think this change isnt in the historical spirit of the game as I see it... Traditionally eve has many dynamics which have the earmarks of rewarding diligence and penalizing lazyness. In that regard, if you're diligent about watching probes or dscan or the sensor overlay for new sigs then you get the security that the vigilance affords you.

This proposed change seems to work against that. Now there's nothing I can do to know I'm about to get jumped if i conduct some activity in my wh that could put me at risk.

This in conjunction with the reality that many wormhole corps are small means the large preying on the small will be more effective at delivering a negative game-play experience for those folks just scraping by



I feel like whats trying to be done here is to make rolling for pvp more enjoyable by improving the odds at rewards... Because this activity is notorious for being boring. Could we consider that this activity isnt as ideal for enjoyment as some other techniques to provoke pvp?

You know... like invading to provoke a fight

I think really what this is, is opening up more opportunities for ganks, when what should be being considered is how to bring more balanced long-lasting good fights that I think most people would agree are more exciting and rewarding than catching some small group of scrubs with their pants down


Intana Kreis
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#83 - 2014-03-23 22:39:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Team Five O has been working on a few concepts for improvements to wormhole mechanics and we wanted to run one idea by you all to start some discussion in the community.


How many of Team Five O have lived in w-space? Just asking.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2014-03-23 22:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I do agree with the idea as it would mean more htfu in wspace. Wspace people can make a lot of isk and the space does not have local. It should be mysterious and unknown. I do understand peoples position to farm in peace but i do not understand your spirit of wspace.


Oh wouldn't it be grand if everyone in W-space could drop a 30 man t3 fleet on a target? Everyone would roll around making mad dosh, flying superexpensive ships and not caring if they lose them. From the newest player in a WH to the oldest, easy isk, ships come easy and go easy, and nothing ever matters.

Well you can. And I can. And a lot of the largest c5 and c6 corps can.

But to blanket tell everyone that disagrees with the idea that they need to HTFU and accept their unforeseeable, uncounterable ganking as a product of what you believe is the "spirit of Wspace" is just silly.

People in lower level WH's that get repeatedly ganked without counterplay don't HTFU and magically become competent c5/c6 corps. They either quit, or they leave WH space, or they leave their corp to join one of said c5/c6 corp with enough firepower and a scary enough name to deter gankers with fewer numbers than their own blob group. Then their old corp withers because of a lack of competent players.

I'm really not seeing you as a great representative of the WH community if your only response to peoples concerns outside of c5/6 blobs is "HTFU noob, my playstyle, my way, only way"
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#85 - 2014-03-23 22:40:43 UTC
Also; shoutout to CCP for coming to us with a proposition and allowing us to discuss it first, rather than announcing it as an addition and wait for us all to cry with one voice "I want some of whatever you've been smoking". It is appreciated.
Skyleth Bergen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-03-23 22:41:52 UTC
This change doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I could see taking away sensor overlay in general, but there's no plausible explanation as to why your active probing wouldn't be able to detect a signature that's in active use. We are flying spaceships here, but I like to see a certain degree of realism maintained in my fantasy.

This change seems like it would only benefit aggressors who already have the advantage of piling into a new system on short notice. It simply stacks the odds increasingly in their favor by circumventing the active vigilance of people seeking to avoid a fight; something they are doing quite legitimately.

People pressing for this change are basically asking for handicap so they can gank. Want to drop on someone faster? Accept the risk of having less time to scout and weigh the odds of your success. I think that's really the balance answer here: a change in play style of the aggressive party. But nobody is doing it because they fear losing ships!
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-03-23 22:42:22 UTC
I think what this change will do is not bigger praying on the weaker but rather stopping the log off gangs in favor of rolling gangs.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me

Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#88 - 2014-03-23 22:45:40 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I think what this change will do is not bigger praying on the weaker but rather stopping the log off gangs in favor of rolling gangs.


I don't really see that happening. Log off gangs are just better when you have a given target you have intel on and want to hit, particularly in C6 space due to the relative ease of finding a particular hole. Rolling gangs can still be very effective currently, and will be successful against people who aren't paying attention or are doing something wrong, which is exactly the kind of people who SHOULD be dying.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#89 - 2014-03-23 22:46:23 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I think what this change will do is not bigger praying on the weaker but rather stopping the log off gangs in favor of rolling gangs.


I think that this change would favor rolling gangs, so I can agree with your stance in that regard, Chitsa.

However, the bigger picture is that this will also impact the lower class residents. This will harm their gameplay as it is proposed.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#90 - 2014-03-23 22:47:22 UTC
I want to make a longer post.

Laziness is a huge factor. Spamming probes is not all it is cracked up to be and there are plenty of times where someone doesn't do it as often as they should, or goes AFK, or is dumb and decides to run shorthanded and second clients the scout.

I think even going back to the spamming probes method is a huge improvement because it forces activity out of the farming fleet. And as everyone in this thread knows there's plenty of opportunities that happen in those seconds before a button push. I think there's pros and cons to going further than that, but at a minimum that is where the conversation should start.

The status quo isn't good for wormholes.
Valeska Vasile
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2014-03-23 22:47:39 UTC
i like the idea to make wormholes a bit less predictable. But, wouldn't it be too good for wormholes folks that can chain-collapse their static? Should statics be bound too to this new rule?


Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#92 - 2014-03-23 22:48:13 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
This change would also allow safely rolling new statics you dont like. Imagine some "farmers" roll into some "pvpers". Currently, the "pvpers" have chance to scan the hole and ambush those "farmers" when they try to roll this unwanted static. Proposed change would give them perfectly safe window to crash without any possible interference. So this cuts both ways and one of them is making certain things safer, not riskier.


Still reading the thread, but this resonates with me pretty strongly.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2014-03-23 22:50:11 UTC
I like the notion to delay signals of K162 on the overlay and passive ship scanner

But i dont like the idea of delaying it on probes. if a farming fleet commits one or more people to scanning duty they should be able to get information faster that just by staring ot the passive scan results.

Right now you get the info for free, with new system you will have to do some work to get it in time to safe your fleet / call in reinforcments.

The end goal for the change is to get more fights, but is it more fights that will be given or just more ganks? If somoene will not place probers on watch they are stupid but if they doo, they should have an edge. even if slight. compared to the overlay.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#94 - 2014-03-23 22:51:31 UTC
Joran Jackson wrote:
I want to make a longer post.

Laziness is a huge factor. Spamming probes is not all it is cracked up to be and there are plenty of times where someone doesn't do it as often as they should, or goes AFK, or is dumb and decides to run shorthanded and second clients the scout.

I think even going back to the spamming probes method is a huge improvement because it forces activity out of the farming fleet. And as everyone in this thread knows there's plenty of opportunities that happen in those seconds before a button push. I think there's pros and cons to going further than that, but at a minimum that is where the conversation should start.

The status quo isn't good for wormholes.


If somebody is lazy, or unskilled, or messes up, then that's the time when they should be ganked. If somebody is paying attention then there's an opportunity for both sides to have a fight they will enjoy, rather than stacking the cards to one side in order to allow large groups to gank smaller ones.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#95 - 2014-03-23 22:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I think what this change will do is not bigger praying on the weaker but rather stopping the log off gangs in favor of rolling gangs.

As someone living in <=C4, I have never encountered log off gangs (outside POS assaults/defenses). Rolling gangs are the norm, however there might have been a decrease since Odyssey.
Alisyana
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-03-23 23:02:46 UTC
Disable sig overlay and D-Scan. Problem solved.

**Definition of "SD" (Self Destruct) = "It's like running up to someone to kick them in the balls, they see you and proceed to kick themselves in the balls, and then laugh at you for denying someone a chance to kick them in the balls." ** - Celery Man

Dreekus
Pls Be Gentle
#97 - 2014-03-23 23:02:54 UTC
Delaying overlay - sure. Most of us were against it in WH in the first place.

Delay on probs is big no. Attackers already have advantage in surpise and being formed up, adding to that more time is just making ganks easier without providing good counter and without rewarding active gameplay.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#98 - 2014-03-23 23:04:10 UTC
Alisyana wrote:
Disable sig overlay and D-Scan. Problem solved.


Are you suggesting disabling D-Scan in wormholes?
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#99 - 2014-03-23 23:04:36 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Joran Jackson wrote:
I want to make a longer post.

Laziness is a huge factor. Spamming probes is not all it is cracked up to be and there are plenty of times where someone doesn't do it as often as they should, or goes AFK, or is dumb and decides to run shorthanded and second clients the scout.

I think even going back to the spamming probes method is a huge improvement because it forces activity out of the farming fleet. And as everyone in this thread knows there's plenty of opportunities that happen in those seconds before a button push. I think there's pros and cons to going further than that, but at a minimum that is where the conversation should start.

The status quo isn't good for wormholes.


If somebody is lazy, or unskilled, or messes up, then that's the time when they should be ganked. If somebody is paying attention then there's an opportunity for both sides to have a fight they will enjoy, rather than stacking the cards to one side in order to allow large groups to gank smaller ones.


If you're entire point is to have the permanent probe delay removed? Fine, I agree with you. Only if you agree to have the sensor overlay delayed until you get a probe hit. I'd be perfectly happy with a change that takes us back to pre-Odyssey.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-03-23 23:04:53 UTC
Alisyana wrote:
Disable sig overlay and D-Scan. Problem solved.


Not sure if trolling about removing D-scan in a place with no local or just really really batty.