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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1221 - 2014-03-22 12:27:48 UTC
Emuar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


We arnt going to tax away that 20% because nobody would bother mining if we do. Our tax system is more advanced than that and we value getting cheaper ships to pvp with over taxing a miner.

as for why reward the risk takers, why wouldnt you? With no reward for taking on the higher risk why would you leave high sec?

There is nothing to gain from refining in null that high sec doesnt offer right now.



of course you are not going tax away 20%, but these changes let you get your tax (one more "alliance lvl income" as your grunts used to believe) and grunts will get the same or a bit more than in pos or highsec station.

and with better refine rates you automatically will get more profit from manufacturing ships for your grunts because you can more efficiently refine imported low grade ores from highsec and noone (refering to your renters and grunts) will try export high end ore to highsec and refine there.

Even wh residents will get more benefit just selling compresed ore to null outpost owner because you can offer better price than they can get reprocesing them by self at pos. Only limiting factor - jump freighter fuel costs but i bet some people already calculated possible profit from it (before official dev blog) and these percents was approved (noone from CSM complain about removing high rate mineral compresion with some modules).

where did i complain about rewarding greater risk taker? though risk / reward arguments may work on some folk who never lived outside highsec, but we both know that there is options to reduce risk to minimum value and if you got ganked - thats your own mistake.

then answer - who takes bigger risk:

a) pilot fly from lowsec (highsec) to null to mine some ore and take that ore back to lowsec (highsec) to refine
b) pilot lives in nullsec, has docking rights at outpost, intel channel, alliance/corporation members in surrounding and same systems

how about risk / reward?

do wh miners take less risk than null miners? why they cant get the same refine rates? maybe wh logistic a lot easier than in k-space?

why you and your alliance live in null if there is no reason (no reward) to live there?

why we have null sec renters if there is no reward?


We are already earning enough to pay our sov bills and offer 200% SRP on peacetime pvp ships. Do you honestly think we need to tax miners?
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#1222 - 2014-03-22 12:29:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.


Idealy the only way to get minerals should by from mining. Miners only have one thing going for them while combat players have several which are better anyway.


Melting down scrap for metal is totally realistic, I cannot see any reason for this not to be possible, and in any case as module drops are so poor in anoms most don't bother, its belt ratting and level 4 missions that do this, something that a high and mighty Goon has no idea of because its so beneath his kingly gaze...




It's not like we had several people come in here and personally testify to their looting of anoms - Oh wait, we did


It's not like we calculated the miniscule portion of income this will effect for the efficient mission runner - Oh wait, we did



So, direct your GRR GOON to me and explain why I should care about your ability to gun mine, especially when your mineral output COULD (but I strongly dislike this idea) be changed back to pre-patch by simply increasing the mins in meta 1-4.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1223 - 2014-03-22 12:30:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.


Idealy the only way to get minerals should by from mining. Miners only have one thing going for them while combat players have several which are better anyway.


Melting down scrap for metal is totally realistic, I cannot see any reason for this not to be possible, and in any case as module drops are so poor in anoms most don't bother, its belt ratting and level 4 missions that do this, something that a high and mighty Goon has no idea of because its so beneath his kingly gaze...


Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1224 - 2014-03-22 12:47:42 UTC
I am concerned with the negative effect this (scrap metal processing) nerf will have on the meta 0 modules.
I personally reprocess all meta 1 and meta 2 modules, after the change it will be more profitable to sell them and because modules are tiered meta level modules are almost always better than T1, so the price of meta 1 and 2 modules will go even further down making it less and less desirable to use T1

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#1225 - 2014-03-22 12:48:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
nice shake-up :-)
Keep up the good work CCP!

PS: and while you're at it - get rid of the gates and introduce JDs for everyone + better intel/scanning.. that would make for some sand pit Twisted
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1226 - 2014-03-22 12:49:59 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.


Idealy the only way to get minerals should by from mining. Miners only have one thing going for them while combat players have several which are better anyway.


Melting down scrap for metal is totally realistic, I cannot see any reason for this not to be possible, and in any case as module drops are so poor in anoms most don't bother, its belt ratting and level 4 missions that do this, something that a high and mighty Goon has no idea of because its so beneath his kingly gaze...



It's not like we had several people come in here and personally testify to their looting of anoms - Oh wait, we did

It's not like we calculated the miniscule portion of income this will effect for the efficient mission runner - Oh wait, we did

So, direct your GRR GOON to me and explain why I should care about your ability to gun mine, especially when your mineral output COULD (but I strongly dislike this idea) be changed back to pre-patch by simply increasing the mins in meta 1-4.


Your reading and comprehension fails again, "most don't bother" but some do, its like some people looting belt rats, most do.

It is not exactly minuscule for missions runners, and I think that was one mission that has an especially good drop, there are a few, but I don't run missions any more, I got totally bored of them.

No one has addressed the fact that Belt ratting will become even less viable, which is what I am interested in!

Why should I direct any comment about the Goons posting here and their methods in terms of total war at you who is not a Goon? Unless you are an alt of a Goon player, you certainly seem to be aligning with the Goons by saying we as if you are part of the Goons. But that is not important to me, my objective is to raise the issue so CCP at least looks at it again, though in truth I have no faith in them at all in terms of this, they completely ignored ninja miners when they were upset about hidden belts becoming instant warp too's. So this is not going to get noticed, the only advantage we have compared to them is that new players tend to reprocess modules and in that is the only hope to get an adjustment, because in terms of this it will affect them in holding on to players who want to do different things.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1227 - 2014-03-22 12:52:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


This is the problem. Everyone only thinks in this utterly limiting ISK/hour mentality and it is only going to get worse if more and more people are pushed into this. It's time to recognize that there are also a lot of people who enjoy the activities itself of belt ratting, enjoy mining, producing, hunting anomalies, DED complexes, data/relic sites, etc - not because of money, but because the activity is fun and (somewhat) enjoyable. There is certainly a lot of things to be improved to make then better, more enjoyable and challenging, emergent, varying - fun. Forcefully improving only the ISK/hour aspect in all these activities is limiting and focuses on the in my opinion wrong aspect of the mechanics.
But then again, there are also so many people who only have such a limited scope and view on enjoying the game and only see it as a grinding fest, just like any other game. This is way too mainstream in my opinion.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1228 - 2014-03-22 12:54:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.


Idealy the only way to get minerals should by from mining. Miners only have one thing going for them while combat players have several which are better anyway.


Melting down scrap for metal is totally realistic, I cannot see any reason for this not to be possible, and in any case as module drops are so poor in anoms most don't bother, its belt ratting and level 4 missions that do this, something that a high and mighty Goon has no idea of because its so beneath his kingly gaze...


Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


NPC 0.0, go out there and go ice mining, this would be good for a laugh, or perhaps you want to go and do level 4's when being camped by BLOP's hot droppers, I deal in operating in difficult areas, not fantasy.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Pic'n dor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1229 - 2014-03-22 13:08:56 UTC
so...

If i don't want to mine but i want to build some caps far away how it will be diffrent ?

- buy stuff : before minerals / after ores << i'm still buyong thing nothing really change
- compress previous stuff <- uncompress/refine << little to no change : output is 100% of what i could have before
- build / sell / do the conga of happiness << same as before

The only thing that really matter : finding ore and not mineral anymore

On big production scale that is eve and supercaps, that mean billions and billions of minerals that won't be bought on market (price drop ??) and some more hauling of the ore...

The purest, the densier : trit volume should be competitive with compress veldspar volume that mean 1/2000th of a m3 (0.0005 m3)

COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1230 - 2014-03-22 13:14:24 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


This is the problem. Everyone only thinks in this utterly limiting ISK/hour mentality and it is only going to get worse if more and more people are pushed into this. It's time to recognize that there are also a lot of people who enjoy the activities itself of belt ratting, enjoy mining, producing, hunting anomalies, DED complexes, data/relic sites, etc - not because of money, but because the activity is fun and (somewhat) enjoyable. There is certainly a lot of things to be improved to make then better, more enjoyable and challenging, emergent, varying - fun. Forcefully improving only the ISK/hour aspect in all these activities is limiting and focuses on the in my opinion wrong aspect of the mechanics.
But then again, there are also so many people who only have such a limited scope and view on enjoying the game and only see it as a grinding fest, just like any other game. This is way too mainstream in my opinion.


Belt ratting is also not fun. Its just terrible.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1231 - 2014-03-22 13:27:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


This is the problem. Everyone only thinks in this utterly limiting ISK/hour mentality and it is only going to get worse if more and more people are pushed into this. It's time to recognize that there are also a lot of people who enjoy the activities itself of belt ratting, enjoy mining, producing, hunting anomalies, DED complexes, data/relic sites, etc - not because of money, but because the activity is fun and (somewhat) enjoyable. There is certainly a lot of things to be improved to make then better, more enjoyable and challenging, emergent, varying - fun. Forcefully improving only the ISK/hour aspect in all these activities is limiting and focuses on the in my opinion wrong aspect of the mechanics.
But then again, there are also so many people who only have such a limited scope and view on enjoying the game and only see it as a grinding fest, just like any other game. This is way too mainstream in my opinion.


Belt ratting is also not fun. Its just terrible.


That is your opinion, one that I don't share. And if it is terrible then it needs to be improved, and reasonable suggestions for improvements need to be submitted.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1232 - 2014-03-22 13:28:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.


Idealy the only way to get minerals should by from mining. Miners only have one thing going for them while combat players have several which are better anyway.


Melting down scrap for metal is totally realistic, I cannot see any reason for this not to be possible, and in any case as module drops are so poor in anoms most don't bother, its belt ratting and level 4 missions that do this, something that a high and mighty Goon has no idea of because its so beneath his kingly gaze...


Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


NPC 0.0, go out there and go ice mining, this would be good for a laugh, or perhaps you want to go and do level 4's when being camped by BLOP's hot droppers, I deal in operating in difficult areas, not fantasy.

Why would we go to npc 0.0 for ice?

Why would we worry about blops when running level 4s in high sec?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1233 - 2014-03-22 13:35:03 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


This is the problem. Everyone only thinks in this utterly limiting ISK/hour mentality and it is only going to get worse if more and more people are pushed into this. It's time to recognize that there are also a lot of people who enjoy the activities itself of belt ratting, enjoy mining, producing, hunting anomalies, DED complexes, data/relic sites, etc - not because of money, but because the activity is fun and (somewhat) enjoyable. There is certainly a lot of things to be improved to make then better, more enjoyable and challenging, emergent, varying - fun. Forcefully improving only the ISK/hour aspect in all these activities is limiting and focuses on the in my opinion wrong aspect of the mechanics.
But then again, there are also so many people who only have such a limited scope and view on enjoying the game and only see it as a grinding fest, just like any other game. This is way too mainstream in my opinion.


Belt ratting is also not fun. Its just terrible.


That is your opinion, one that I don't share. And if it is terrible then it needs to be improved, and reasonable suggestions for improvements need to be submitted.


We have 67 pages of people raging over miners getting a 20% reward for taking on risks. There is a ragenought in GD over mission runners getting a 3.7% reduction in their earnings.

Every time there is talk of a buff to income outside of highsec the bears explode in rage.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1234 - 2014-03-22 13:36:37 UTC
Those of you bemoaning the effect of the new reprocessing rates on highsec miners, don't despair. If you are mining in highsec, simply compress the ore instead of reprocessing it. All builders, be them in highsec, lowsec, or nullsec, are going to prefer trafficking in compressed ore over the minerals, as they are much more convenient to move around. They're also more convenient to bring to market for the miner!

In order to handle the new way of doing things as a miner, you're going to have to divorce yourself of the concept that you are required to reprocess your ore yourself. I understand that this is going against ten years of habit, but it's okay; we'll get through this together. :)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#1235 - 2014-03-22 13:51:01 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I am concerned with the negative effect this (scrap metal processing) nerf will have on the meta 0 modules.
I personally reprocess all meta 1 and meta 2 modules, after the change it will be more profitable to sell them and because modules are tiered meta level modules are almost always better than T1, so the price of meta 1 and 2 modules will go even further down making it less and less desirable to use T1

Meta 0 modules need rebalancing in my opinion. Im hoping for some kind of module tiericide. With meta 1-4 modules becoming a lot rarer than they are currently, and also offering some benefits over T2 modules.
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#1236 - 2014-03-22 13:54:35 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
So, other than the ever-present "GRRR Goons!" thing -- which is really getting tiresome -- what about the idea of buffing the mineral content of things that one can only obtain by salvaging? This could be meta 1-4 loot, or new and varied forms of metal scraps (or both).

I don't think this would (necessarily) take us all the way back to "gun mining", since I don't get the sense that gun mining is really a big deal at the moment. Just buff the mineral content of loot drops so that a max-skilled refiner can extract roughly what they are getting today from these items (perhaps a bit less).

As long as these items couldn't be player-manufactured, it would be pretty impossible to use them (at least at any large scale) for mineral compression.

That way, the mineral value of salvage could remain useful, and mineral compression would still be nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of meta 1-4 items getting a slight uptick in their mineral content, but remaining mostly useful for their role as improved versions of meta 0 modules. The buff to mineral content could instead be rolled into new forms metal scraps. If it was done in a balanced way, this would retain the usefulness of salvaging without allowing huge amounts of compressed minerals into the game.

The issue isn't making meta 1-4 yield more minerals, which would completely negate one of the benefits of this change. The issue is meta 1-4 modules should actually be useful and offer something over the T2 modules, and at the same time decrease their drop rate.

That way no more gun mining, but if ratters and mission runners wish, they can still loot and make a decent profit by actually selling the modules for use.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1237 - 2014-03-22 13:58:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We have 67 pages of people raging over miners getting a 20% reward for taking on risks. There is a ragenought in GD over mission runners getting a 3.7% reduction in their earnings.

Every time there is talk of a buff to income outside of highsec the bears explode in rage.


And there you are again with your ISK/hour mentality. There doesn't need to be a buff to income, you can get 15M+ ticks in belts as it is, with proper chaining. What all activities need are a buff in how interesting they are, how fun they are to do, how good you have to be at thinking around corners in some instances and how engaging they are. Long things short: A complete replacement of the current PVE system with new mechanics, new ways to do it, new content, new challenges. It of course requires a lot of coding, but judging by the lack of any information on this matter it's something that CCP doesn't seem to consider at all.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1238 - 2014-03-22 14:08:12 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

And there you are again with your ISK/hour mentality. There doesn't need to be a buff to income, you can get 15M+ ticks in belts as it is, with proper chaining.

Man, you haven't been in nullsec for a long time, if ever. Chaining was killed a long time ago. The rats that spawn in a belt are now fully randomized, even if you leave some alive. Belt ratting is deader than disco.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1239 - 2014-03-22 14:12:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Most of us run level 4s in high sec. Belt ratting is terrible isk, your better off mining ice.


Here people we have real response why there are so many "nerf high buff null" talks. There are a lot mission agents in low, even lvl5, and pirate agents in npc null, but they do lvl4 in high sec (i mean grunts do this). You know that's embarrassing to realise that you prefer to play EVE as safe as possible for those who officially are proud pvpers.

These "high risk takers" thinks that if high sec income would be nerfed to ground, they would find courage to start using sov space not only for moon mining and leadership hopes that they will get high influx of players from high sec. More active players, more taxes, safer poses, less chance to loose timer.
One not blue person in local shut down almost all pve activities in null - that's reality. That's why grunts do lvl4 missions in high sec (lower rewards but steady income).
of course one null sec system can't support infinity ratters as high sec agent and they need to spread across "owned" systems but there is some risk, so they stick in system with outpost and if neutral or red comes to system they just go to do lvl4 in high.

Belt ratting in null better than most high sec lvl4 missions (do you chaining belts these days?) and with chance to get faction/officer spown if you not chaining. and there are anomalies.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1240 - 2014-03-22 14:13:11 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We have 67 pages of people raging over miners getting a 20% reward for taking on risks. There is a ragenought in GD over mission runners getting a 3.7% reduction in their earnings.

Every time there is talk of a buff to income outside of highsec the bears explode in rage.


And there you are again with your ISK/hour mentality. There doesn't need to be a buff to income, you can get 15M+ ticks in belts as it is, with proper chaining. What all activities need are a buff in how interesting they are, how fun they are to do, how good you have to be at thinking around corners in some instances and how engaging they are. Long things short: A complete replacement of the current PVE system with new mechanics, new ways to do it, new content, new challenges. It of course requires a lot of coding, but judging by the lack of any information on this matter it's something that CCP doesn't seem to consider at all.


A full revamp of PVE would be a muli-year project.