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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Keltin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1181 - 2014-03-22 07:39:26 UTC
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Keltin wrote:
Refine Rates

20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining.

Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers.



Wow. Forget the devblog, you didn't even read the link you used to try to prove your point.

Look at the batch size.



Wow, so hard to say "look at the batch size" in a nice way isn't it?

But yeah, thnx, been up for 72 hours straight, numbers are not being friendly to me at the moment.

Stop the world!
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#1182 - 2014-03-22 08:02:06 UTC
If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#1183 - 2014-03-22 08:06:06 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates.




Except that null has more risk...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1184 - 2014-03-22 08:06:44 UTC
Georgiy Giggle wrote:
I see many nice improvements, such as compression process and reprocessing UI. But also I see some bad things:

- You are boosting mining while nerfing reprocess output from modules and ships (It's very famous CCP's way of solving problems: we should not fix something, we should break, so other broken stuff would not look like broken).
- You nerfing minmatar outpost, so it won't be so juicy as now. Have a question: how will you boost other features of minmatar outpost instead? Or, how will you nerf (make it similar to other) other outposts to make a balance?


Outposts are an entire summer expansion of problems themselves and will most likely get seen when they revamp sov.

the mods and ship reprocessing is honestly a good thing and a welcome buff to miners.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1185 - 2014-03-22 08:11:48 UTC
Keltin wrote:
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:
Keltin wrote:
Refine Rates

20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining.

Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers.



Wow. Forget the devblog, you didn't even read the link you used to try to prove your point.

Look at the batch size.



Wow, so hard to say "look at the batch size" in a nice way isn't it?

But yeah, thnx, been up for 72 hours straight, numbers are not being friendly to me at the moment.

Stop the world!


This is why I an trying to be civil with you. It looked like you saw the nerfs and missed the other changes that balanced it all out.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#1186 - 2014-03-22 08:12:38 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates.


I completely agree, however the nullbear narative coming out of Mittanigrad, and trotted out by the rest of the goontards and their underlings, will always contradict the facts.

If we take a simple risk ratio as being defined as ship loss/jump then low sec is approximately 3 x as riskier than null.
White Queen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1187 - 2014-03-22 08:19:56 UTC
The refining changes seem great to miners but horrible to ratters. A significant part if the income was reprocessing loot, which was critical since 60% or more of the modules that drop off rats are useless items that nobody has any use for. Scrap metal 4 became a great skill for me and boosted my income considerably. Now this part of income is going to drop considerably, with nothing else boosted to balance that.

I know this only happens rarely, but I would consider sp refunds on Scrapmetal reprocessing skills and Metallurgy.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1188 - 2014-03-22 08:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kinis Deren wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates.


I completely agree, however the nullbear narative coming out of Mittanigrad, and trotted out by the rest of the goontards and their underlings, will always contradict the facts.

If we take a simple risk ratio as being defined as ship loss/jump then low sec is approximately 3 x as riskier than null.


Nullsec has several million more ship deaths than low sec. You also cant be locked out of a station in low sec.
Vingoruud Arthie
Armada vi Vulnezia
#1189 - 2014-03-22 08:36:11 UTC
i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1190 - 2014-03-22 08:40:46 UTC
Good change. Emergent game play FTW.

The Tears Must Flow
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#1191 - 2014-03-22 08:44:29 UTC
Vingoruud Arthie wrote:
i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it




Your skills suddenly become useful


You whine your skills are now useless??
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#1192 - 2014-03-22 08:46:27 UTC
Though I am a mission runner and enjoy the extra income from reprocessing my loot, it is just that, extra income. My husband and daughter are miners and they always grumbled that I could get minerals on top of my bounties and LP rewards when they had to mine for it. So though I personally will lose some income I think it a good change towards balancing the reward to activity, ie: minerals for miners, bounties and LP for mission runners.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1193 - 2014-03-22 08:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Vingoruud Arthie wrote:
i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it


You will see no difference in your mining and refining, all this change will do is give up to 20% more reward for miners who take greater risks.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1194 - 2014-03-22 09:09:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Nullsec has several million more ship deaths than low sec. You also cant be locked out of a station in low sec.


Yeah will duh, hardly anyone can handle the risk of lowsec so they avoid it. Total ship deaths mean crap, unless you want to go as far as saying that more ship deaths in highsec makes it more dangerous then lowsec.

The posters are correct, if EVE had real risk vs reward, Lowsec rewards would be considerably higher then any other place.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1195 - 2014-03-22 09:14:17 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Nullsec has several million more ship deaths than low sec. You also cant be locked out of a station in low sec.


Yeah will duh, hardly anyone can handle the risk of lowsec so they avoid it. Total ship deaths mean crap, unless you want to go as far as saying that more ship deaths in highsec makes it more dangerous then lowsec.

The posters are correct, if EVE had real risk vs reward, Lowsec rewards would be considerably higher then any other place.


We flew an orca around lowsec for an hour before someone attacked it and the systems were far from empty.

you cant be locked out of a lowsec station like you can be in null and there are several weapons that cannot be activated in low sec. Its risky but null and WH are more risky.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#1196 - 2014-03-22 09:22:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We flew an orca around lowsec for an hour before someone attacked it and the systems were far from empty.

you cant be locked out of a lowsec station like you can be in null and there are several weapons that cannot be activated in low sec. Its risky but null and WH are more risky.

You can't lock your enemies out of stations either. Lowsec and nullsec are different in several ways. Statistics show that lowsec is more dangerous.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#1197 - 2014-03-22 09:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Ozuwara
baltec1 wrote:
you cant be locked out of a lowsec station like you can be in null and there are several weapons that cannot be activated in low sec. Its risky but null and WH are more risky.

And when was the last time your great big blue blob was locked out of a station? How many stations do you control anyway?

Tell us about how scary it is for people to undock and rat in carriers, or to AFK and bot mine in Deklein.

Please, compare your blue donut to W-SPACE which has no local and no regional blues.

You pile into fights you have no chance of losing, bring overwhelming force to bear, win nearly every major engagement, and then come on the forums and poor mouth about how hard nullsec is. Don't even get me started on B0TLRD and peacetime reimbursements.

Cui bono?

Spare us this victory lap where you tell us how it's all for the good of the game and how hard GSF has struggled these last 3 years.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1198 - 2014-03-22 09:43:13 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We flew an orca around lowsec for an hour before someone attacked it and the systems were far from empty.

you cant be locked out of a lowsec station like you can be in null and there are several weapons that cannot be activated in low sec. Its risky but null and WH are more risky.

You can't lock your enemies out of stations either. Lowsec and nullsec are different in several ways. Statistics show that lowsec is more dangerous.


Yes we can, go ask the NC about it.

Statistics show null is more deadly by millions of ships.
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1199 - 2014-03-22 09:45:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vingoruud Arthie wrote:
i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it


You will see no difference in your mining and refining, all this change will do is give up to 20% more reward for miners who take greater risks.



Potential 20% more reward for miners but in reality more reward for outpost owners who will set taxes on refining. That is direct income buff for "masters" not to "peasants". Only those who already rich could use that "potential" (upgrades for outposts are not cheap). So it increase gap between rich and poor alliances.
That is not buff for miners or miners in null particularly, mining in null was always better than in lowsec or highsec (some of us remember when people used cruisers to fly to null and mine there).
Nothing wrong to let refine ore in null outpost as efficient as in npc station, but why it must be better? Outpost is empire technology.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1200 - 2014-03-22 10:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Emuar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vingoruud Arthie wrote:
i think the changes are crap as i have trained to level 5 on all and then worked my ass off to get standings. this is going to screw a lot of us, don't over think it


You will see no difference in your mining and refining, all this change will do is give up to 20% more reward for miners who take greater risks.



Potential 20% more reward for miners but in reality more reward for outpost owners who will set taxes on refining. That is direct income buff for "masters" not to "peasants". Only those who already rich could use that "potential" (upgrades for outposts are not cheap). So it increase gap between rich and poor alliances.
That is not buff for miners or miners in null particularly, mining in null was always better than in lowsec or highsec (some of us remember when people used cruisers to fly to null and mine there).
Nothing wrong to let refine ore in null outpost as efficient as in npc station, but why it must be better? Outpost is empire technology.


We arnt going to tax away that 20% because nobody would bother mining if we do. Our tax system is more advanced than that and we value getting cheaper ships to pvp with over taxing a miner.

as for why reward the risk takers, why wouldnt you? With no reward for taking on the higher risk why would you leave high sec?

There is nothing to gain from refining in null that high sec doesnt offer right now.