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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

First post First post
Author
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#341 - 2014-02-14 22:06:35 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.


I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.



too bad none of those rebuttals have been backed up credible statements by CCP or evidence with methods outlined so they can be reproduced by anyone.

Again.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2014-02-14 22:07:55 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.


I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.

I guess you missed all the rebuttals to your points.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#343 - 2014-02-14 22:09:18 UTC
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.


I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.



too bad none of those rebuttals have been backed up credible statements by CCP or evidence with methods outlined so they can be reproduced by anyone.

Again.


The last time I asked for the specific dev blogs in question backing up his specific claims....

The guy just vomited a bunch of personal attacks into the thread.

No links. No data. No evidence. Just a bunch of "GRRR RAWAARAWARRAR u are DUM!!!"
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#344 - 2014-02-14 22:13:35 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.


I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.

I guess you missed all the rebuttals to your points.


Yeah, here's an excellent one:

Quote:
It's because you live in a world of denial. you could test it for yourself. You never have because you aren't interested in the truth and you know it.


rofl.

I couldn't even make this stuff up if I wanted to. No mention of what "it" is that I should be "testing."

Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online.

Or perhaps I don't know what "it" is because I'm just "not interested in the truth."

Lol
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#345 - 2014-02-14 22:19:10 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online.

It would certainly be more productive than continuing to flail around in this thread.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#346 - 2014-02-14 22:26:05 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online.

It would certainly be more productive than continuing to flail around in this thread.


I disagree. One of these activities is absolutely hilarious from my own personal experience.

The other activity proves and accomplishes nothing.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#347 - 2014-02-14 22:27:02 UTC
oh look this thread turned to highsec vs nullsec
I bet no one saw this coming

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC

Anomaly One
Doomheim
#348 - 2014-02-14 22:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
meh, flabbergast

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#349 - 2014-02-14 23:49:22 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:

Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.


Right there we have the answer folks, people that refuse to engage in diplomacy and politics can't get anywhere in a multiplayer game.

E: They literally don't feel like doing what it takes to succeed.


I never said I never got anywhere, and I sure as hell do not shun from diplomacy and politics. I post a little to much on my main to be able to claim that with a straight face. Big smile

However, you are 100% correct I do not feel like doing what it takes to succeed according to nullsec's primary metrics, both player driven or hardcoded sov mechanics. I have other motivations to keep me engaged in Eve Online, motivations powerfull enough to keep enjoying it too. The OP's question was if the little guy had a chance of gaining a foothold in nullsec. I just think wspace and hisec are more suitable, with lowsec as another option that's starting to lose appeal in this context.

I don't think they do because of their very nature. His second question is whether or not that is healthy for the game. While I would absolutely love the idea of many many mini-states encroaching on each others borders like feudal europe, I have a feeling the people that benefit of nullsecs current state would think otherwise. If the majority of players and devs prefer it's current state then yes, that is healthy for the game, indifferent of anyones personal opinion.
Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#350 - 2014-02-15 00:00:17 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Also, Marlona sky had a very interesting idea to curb power projection in EvE, something that is truly needed. Read it, as it is a good article.

Actually that's a horrible idea. Marlona is just mad that they lost the war.


There are currently no drawbacks to teleportation in EvE, and this is something that should exist. To be honest, I really don't care about the movement of capitals via teleportation, but I very much think bridging needs to have some limits similar to Marlona's suggestion.


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.

It would give new alliances a fighting chance.

It would be AWFUL for goons - they will never support it.

The current status quo of defending and attacking anything from anywhere benefits them far too much for them to ever want that changed.



LOL

Yeah so what happens when the CFC goes offensive. We can dump the the N3's active numbers plus TEST, and pretty much every large FW and Pirate entity wherever we need to.

Who is going to slow that down?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#351 - 2014-02-15 00:07:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Also, Marlona sky had a very interesting idea to curb power projection in EvE, something that is truly needed. Read it, as it is a good article.

Actually that's a horrible idea. Marlona is just mad that they lost the war.


There are currently no drawbacks to teleportation in EvE, and this is something that should exist. To be honest, I really don't care about the movement of capitals via teleportation, but I very much think bridging needs to have some limits similar to Marlona's suggestion.


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.

It would give new alliances a fighting chance.

It would be AWFUL for goons - they will never support it.

The current status quo of defending and attacking anything from anywhere benefits them far too much for them to ever want that changed.



LOL

Yeah so what happens when the CFC goes offensive. We can dump the the N3's active numbers plus TEST, and pretty much every large FW and Pirate entity wherever we need to.

Who is going to slow that down?


The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#352 - 2014-02-15 00:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.



.....oh so who can support more fronts?
Anything that "helps the little guy" helps the big guys more.

So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. With 30 some odd thousand members we can zerg down most allainces quickly and easily.

Removing the timers would just make it faster because the smaller guy wouldn't have the time to batphone.

Removing jump mechanics just makes it MORE ******* annoying to live in null. Ever been to Paragon Soul, or Cache, or The Spire they are 4+ REGIONS deep into null, + a region sometimes two of low sec. Removing the ability to get **** in and out would just mean that the game is more annoying that its worth.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#353 - 2014-02-15 00:17:26 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.

This would just encourage even bigger coalitions.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#354 - 2014-02-15 00:17:35 UTC
Onictus wrote:
So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from.

The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with. Blink
Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#355 - 2014-02-15 00:22:05 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Onictus wrote:
So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from.

The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with. Blink



I can't be the only one that sees the humor of a member of NC.....of ALL alliances.....calling to nerf jump drives.

Not like that is your schtick or anything.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#356 - 2014-02-15 00:34:19 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.

This would just encourage even bigger coalitions.


Would it?

Coalitions mean you have to travel farther to get a fight. When jump logistics (bridging) is limited, so you must fly in space, that 50 systems to find an opponent matters much more than flying 30 systems. And if most of the coalition is fighting in the south, they won't have the ability to quickly move back and forth to curb-stomp a new threat. With strict limits on teleportation, where troops are in the universe matters, fronts matter, etc... It is more likely coalitions will collapse under their own weight, especially if they are fragmented across too many zones and members feel left out or unsupported.



Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#357 - 2014-02-15 00:39:41 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Onictus wrote:
So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from.

The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with. Blink



I can't be the only one that sees the humor of a member of NC.....of ALL alliances.....calling to nerf jump drives.

Not like that is your schtick or anything.

Surely NCDot could fall back on their proven record of subcap supremecy. Lol

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#358 - 2014-02-15 00:41:34 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.

This would just encourage even bigger coalitions.


Would it?

Coalitions mean you have to travel farther to get a fight. When jump logistics (bridging) is limited, so you must fly in space, that 50 systems to find an opponent matters much more than flying 30 systems. And if most of the coalition is fighting in the south, they won't have the ability to quickly move back and forth to curb-stomp a new threat. With strict limits on teleportation, where troops are in the universe matters, fronts matter, etc... It is more likely coalitions will collapse under their own weight, especially if they are fragmented across too many zones and members feel left out or unsupported.

Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#359 - 2014-02-15 00:46:17 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?


And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#360 - 2014-02-15 00:48:12 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?


And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy.

Have you looked at how the CFC has waged the last few wars? We are already doing this because we haven't (until now) been able to rely on a supercap advantage.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise