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New drone exploit - instapops everything

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Dietrich III
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#41 - 2013-12-28 09:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dietrich III
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Magna Mortem wrote:
I believe you. People are don't even get that they don't get you.

I wouldn't be inclined to believe him except for two things. First of all, this isn't the first person to complain about this exact bug. Second of all, the previous person who complained about this had a video showing their ship (I believe it was an Archon) from a third-person perspective losing structure at a slow but steady pace, but then instantly exploding at about 50%. No titans were on field or on that killmail.

I'll have to find that thread.

So it was even worse than that, actually. He was alpha'd by this bug through 10% armor and all of his structure while he was refitting to reinforced bulkheads.
Here's the thread.
Pay close attention to the video and the logs.


I missed this fight (that's what I get for going to work...) but I'm with James on this one. From what I heard the dread was in fact refitting off a depot. It was likely a goner anyways (as is the spirit of a YOLOSwagRev) but that doesn't change the fact that it would have lasted on the field longer, and that this is a pretty serious bug. Combat-refit with care until CCP address this.

In the other situations where this happened, did drones seem to be the culprit too or was it any form of damage that could trigger instant-death? I'm also curious as to why this seems to be happening now all of a sudden, when people have been combat-refitting off of each other with carriers and supers/titans for years. Is it just the depots that are breaking things?
Silver Rane
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-12-28 09:49:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
But CCP does need to fix this bug. They're aware of it apparently, but they seem to have shrugged it off as a "can't fix".


eh, maybe not. It may just not be worth it to fix. You can't do everything, and resources would be better spent elsewhere.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-12-28 10:10:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Although, seriously, don't call it an exploit. It's not an exploit unless they're doing it intentionally, which I seriously doubt.


But I heard they can hack the Gibson in under 12 parsecs.
Saltire
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#44 - 2013-12-28 10:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Saltire
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-12-28 11:15:45 UTC
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad

Could be anything really. Probably not something that simple. It would be affecting all damage where that variable was being used to apply damage probably.

If it's to do with refitting and not super common it's very likely a logic error that occurs if something is happening at a certain time something else does damage, possibly drones only, possibly one type of drone only, or one type of module (bulkhead, DCU, hardner removed, switched off) that gives a shite value and then bang, headshot.


Personally, I think it should stay, refitting in combat with a depot is now balanced given there's a chance of instadeath :). I think CCP should add a fatality animation once this feature is identified.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-12-28 11:21:25 UTC
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad

No, because a long int (same data type they use for Dscan distance) allows values from -2147483648 to 2147483647. The issue here isn't integer overflow.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-12-28 11:53:16 UTC
Am i to understand this was a DREAD that was alpha'd?

then who gives a ****, your average high sec player could afford a dredd, its like replacing a clone.

also, why do people even still own dreads?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-12-28 11:57:01 UTC
It could possibly be this.

If I have 300 ehp and I get hit by 1000 wrecking hit I get my damage hit as 300 ehp I think.

So if I'm refitting with a mobile depot, and I have a damage control, I have to turn it off to refit, damage control on a dread gives 300k ehp on structure. So 200k goes to 500k, perhaps 500k goes to -300k from 200k + hull damage already taken. Could it be that somehow turning off the DCU gives a negative structure amount, like -21000 and the next hit wether its 1 dps or 1000 dps kills you and the calculation is then -21000 similiar to how the 1000 dps coverts to the remaining hp required to hit zero?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jack bubu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-12-28 12:12:20 UTC
this bug happened to us aswell ~6 months ago where we instapopped a carrier with ishtars on an lowsec undock.

its a random bug
Sid Crash
#50 - 2013-12-28 12:29:34 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It could possibly be this.

If I have 300 ehp and I get hit by 1000 wrecking hit I get my damage hit as 300 ehp I think.

So if I'm refitting with a mobile depot, and I have a damage control, I have to turn it off to refit, damage control on a dread gives 300k ehp on structure. So 200k goes to 500k, perhaps 500k goes to -300k from 200k + hull damage already taken. Could it be that somehow turning off the DCU gives a negative structure amount, like -21000 and the next hit wether its 1 dps or 1000 dps kills you and the calculation is then -21000 similiar to how the 1000 dps coverts to the remaining hp required to hit zero?




Damage is shown as hp, not EHP, so no it has nothing to do with it.

It's also funny how many morons are trolling this thread. OP shows a damage log, it's confirmed to have happened before and there's obviously something weird going on. Not necessarily an exploit but most certainly a "feature".
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2013-12-28 13:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Garnoo
13:02:15 Combat 44450 from Pith Usurper - Scourge Torpedo - Hits
13:02:17 Combat 45200 from Pith Usurper - Scourge Torpedo - Hits

NERF GURISTA!!!

(because noone ever tried to edit plain text...)

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-12-28 13:14:45 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It could possibly be this.

If I have 300 ehp and I get hit by 1000 wrecking hit I get my damage hit as 300 ehp I think.

So if I'm refitting with a mobile depot, and I have a damage control, I have to turn it off to refit, damage control on a dread gives 300k ehp on structure. So 200k goes to 500k, perhaps 500k goes to -300k from 200k + hull damage already taken. Could it be that somehow turning off the DCU gives a negative structure amount, like -21000 and the next hit wether its 1 dps or 1000 dps kills you and the calculation is then -21000 similiar to how the 1000 dps coverts to the remaining hp required to hit zero?




Damage is shown as hp, not EHP, so no it has nothing to do with it.

It's also funny how many morons are trolling this thread. OP shows a damage log, it's confirmed to have happened before and there's obviously something weird going on. Not necessarily an exploit but most certainly a "feature".

DCU gives identical resists to all structure so EHP and HP are the same.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
ure'biatch
The Catholic Church
#53 - 2013-12-28 13:16:00 UTC
Not like you can't use tracking disruptors on drones... Roll
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-12-28 13:20:19 UTC
ure'biatch wrote:
Not like you can't use tracking disruptors on drones... Roll

this is true... each ship should have 4 or 5 dedicated eas to tracking disrupt enemy drones during refits. sandbox game, sandbox solutions!

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-12-28 13:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Infinity Ziona wrote:

DCU gives identical resists to all structure so EHP and HP are the same.

Uh, no. That's not how it works.

Total EHP is the average of the EHP for each resist (alternatively the EHP of the average of the resistances). So let's say my structure HP is 10,000. DC2 brings resists to 60%. So the structure EHP is 10000 * 1/(1 - 0.6) = 25000 with the DC2 on.

EHP and HP are only equal when all resistances are zero.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#56 - 2013-12-28 13:32:23 UTC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis

Obviously allergic to wasp stings, nothing to see here.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-12-28 13:32:31 UTC
Trolls aside, this seems like a pretty problematic issue.

Dodixie > Hek
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2013-12-28 13:35:59 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

DCU gives identical resists to all structure so EHP and HP are the same.

Uh, no. That's not how it works.

Total EHP is the average of the EHP for each resist (alternatively the EHP of the average of the resistances). So let's say my structure HP is 10,000. DC2 brings resists to 60%. So the structure EHP is 10000 * 1/(1 - 0.6) = 25000 with the DC2 on.

EHP and HP are only equal when all resistances are zero.

Oh fair enough.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-12-28 13:58:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

DCU gives identical resists to all structure so EHP and HP are the same.

Uh, no. That's not how it works.

Total EHP is the average of the EHP for each resist (alternatively the EHP of the average of the resistances). So let's say my structure HP is 10,000. DC2 brings resists to 60%. So the structure EHP is 10000 * 1/(1 - 0.6) = 25000 with the DC2 on.

EHP and HP are only equal when all resistances are zero.

Oh fair enough.

...wha-what? A dispute on the EVEO forums was settled with relatively good humour?

Dodixie > Hek
Katie Lazair
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-12-28 14:01:43 UTC
You fail to realize this is not the same universe.

Standard physics does not apply.

This is ccp math.